Transtopia????

[Elok]

https://www.transtopia.org

This was SomethingAwful's Awful Link of the Day (my roommate got me addicted to SA, damn him). I'll begin by stating the obvious: these people appear to be completely out of their freaking minds. This isn't the stupidest thing I've ever heard that was taken seriously by adults (it's got some competition in the form of Scientology, various conspiracy theories, et cetera), but it's pretty wacky. Now, that's just my opinion, and judging by my own bitter experiences with 'Poly, there will be at least one person out there who thinks these folks have the right idea, and he/she (probably he) will argue vehemently in its favor. There is no system of beliefs too lame to have proponents on the OT, that's just a law of nature. The "sour grapes" factor alone should be appealing to many of you out there; their form of transhumanism views masturbation as superior to sex.

With that said, does anybody here know enough about technology to determine whether there's even the slightest chance of any of this crap coming to pass? I don't mean the technopocalypse or whatever (this whole site may have been cribbed from an early episode of "Sealab: 2021"), but the general transhumanist pipe dreams. Uploading one's brain to a computer, for example. That seems, intuitively, impossible, just because I know the brain apparently works by emergence. Our thoughts are the product of millions upon millions of interactions between simple neurons. Our thinking is a function of our brains' architecture, or so I understand it.

An artificial brain would therefore have to mimic all those connections, which would then presumptively have to be selectively strengthened to simulate the workings of an individual brain, or something like that. That's a staggering amount of work, and in order for the replication to work all the connections would have to be made perfectly, plus you'd want them double-checked. You have to wonder who'd be doing all that...and that's just for starters. Getting a non-biological apparatus with several million small parts that didn't break down or overheat (the ostensible advantage over flesh-brains being durability)?

Also on the list of possibilities: using advanced biological techniques of one kind or another to enhance our intelligence. This would seem to assume that human science can, within a hundred years, outdo millions of years of natural progress. It's also less favorable to their ideology, as they regard flesh as an inferior medium prone to wearing out.

Er, am I wrong?

EDIT: Okay, I looked at their page on "uploading" (briefly). They seem to advocate not actual uploading into a computer but a "fossilization" of the brain by replacing neurons with functionally-identical electronic equivalents. How these would be less prone to breakdown than cells, given their number, is unclear.

[Sandman]

There are plenty of transhumanists on Poly.

Those who claim to care just as much about anonymous strangers as about themselves and/or their acquaintances, friends, and family members are either sanctimonious liars or emotionally disturbed. Excessive, runaway empathy is a handicap rather than an asset, and is by no means to be envied or admired.

Lovely.

[Az]

I'd be more supportive of the transhumanist though had not they been mostly a bunch of libertarian *******s.

[BlackCat]

Guess that if you told a victorian gentleman that in the future people would chat across the world in mere milliseconds, he probably would advise you to a treatment at bedlam

Much at that site is probably fantasies, but don't say that just because you think it's some kind of abomination.

Wether it will be possible to simulate a brain in a computer - it's a little tricky. The brain is pretty slow compared to a cpu, but it works in massive paralle in a way computers still can't - though, it may be a matter of time. The real problem arises when you wan't to up/download functionality. This may take somemore time to implement.


Why do you think that biological science can't outperform millions of years of randomness ?

[VetLegion]

I swear they stole this from SMAC!

Brian Reynolds

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by VetLegion


I swear they stole this from SMAC!

Brian Reynolds

Hope you didn't include your mother in that swear - it's just a biohazard sign with a snake on top.

[VetLegion]

Really? It just looks like those new age satanist signs they used in SMAC

I had no idea it was a biohazard sign.

[Az]

dude.....

[Elok]

Uh-oh, you called evolution "random." You're not a fundie, but you'd better edit that quick or Odin might go into berserk mode anyway...

Evolution works based on principles of fierce competition (in the sense of competing methods of survival, not that those methods are always purely competitive). The innovations themselves were fairly random, but the theory goes that it's pure Adam Smith acting on the innovations. A rather powerful force. None of our inventions thus far can come even close to running as smoothly as a human (or other animal) body. Computers might be very fast, but their tasks are relatively simple and confined and they still break down after a few years. And they don't have to manage tons of internal organs at the same time, nor do they have pathogens to worry about. They have "computer viruses," but those are relatively crude programs that have to be custom-engineered nonstop by our society's large antisocial-nerd contingent. And the computer has no means of developing its own antibodies either.

There are also considerable restrictions on what can be accomplished by biology itself; the brain is an incredible hog of energy, and it's the main reason human beings take twenty years to grow to maturity. You can't form a genius overnight. Some amount of what we call "intelligence" is probably learned from experience rather than innate, and there's certainly no reason to assume that intelligence is a plain quantity that can be increased ad infinitum like a helping of food on a plate. Different abilities seem to be linked to different deficiencies; e.g., aspies like me are socially stunted, but we tend to make superb engineers, because our minds often adapt better to mechanistic thinking.

[Thrawn05]

The internet is just full of wonders.

[Whoha]

most of it is pretty stupid, but maybe I'm just bitter that they classified me as an average sheeple

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Elok
Uh-oh, you called evolution "random." You're not a fundie, but you'd better edit that quick or Odin might go into berserk mode anyway...


Evolution works based on principles of fierce competition (in the sense of competing methods of survival, not that those methods are always purely competitive). The innovations themselves were fairly random, but the theory goes that it's pure Adam Smith acting on the innovations. A rather powerful force. None of our inventions thus far can come even close to running as smoothly as a human (or other animal) body. Computers might be very fast, but their tasks are relatively simple and confined and they still break down after a few years. And they don't have to manage tons of internal organs at the same time, nor do they have pathogens to worry about. They have "computer viruses," but those are relatively crude programs that have to be custom-engineered nonstop by our society's large antisocial-nerd contingent. And the computer has no means of developing its own antibodies either.

Of course I did write that since evolution is random and I don't fear the wrath of Odin - he agrees (if not, then he should be spanked ) Evolution is a two step thingie - change and survival. Change is random and only those with that gains benefits evolve. Oh, those that doesn't change migth survive as well.

There are also considerable restrictions on what can be accomplished by biology itself; the brain is an incredible hog of energy, and it's the main reason human beings take twenty years to grow to maturity. You can't form a genius overnight. Some amount of what we call "intelligence" is probably learned from experience rather than innate, and there's certainly no reason to assume that intelligence is a plain quantity that can be increased ad infinitum like a helping of food on a plate. Different abilities seem to be linked to different deficiencies; e.g., aspies like me are socially stunted, but we tend to make superb engineers, because our minds often adapt better to mechanistic thinking.

You don't create geniuses - at least not for the moment - they are typically borne as such. There are still a lot of things that we don't know about the brain.

I'm not sure that that 20 year maturity period is quite right - I think that there are a lot of social behaviour involved in it.

[Axxaer]

They quoted the Matrix

[Axxaer]

If & when we've raised enough money via online businesses, and/or other means, we'll buy a tropical island, probably in the Bahamas

wtf

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Axxaer
They quoted the Matrix

I won't be surprised if they also quotes Terminator