A beautiful sunny day in Vilnius

[Combat Ingrid]

Don't want to hurt your Belgian feelings, Dry, but Serb is right. When the air temp drop significantly below 0, the open water will form steam. It's the water vapor that condenses into tiny water droplets in the cold dry air and falls back down towards the water to form the characteristic steam seen on cold winter days:

Originally posted by Saras
Steaming river Neris:

[BlackCat]

Don't want to hurt your Swedish feelings Combat, but Serb isn't right. What your (or rather Saras) nice pic shows. only happens when the water is relatively hot - not if the water temp is close to 0.

[Combat Ingrid]

Well of course the water is *relatively* hot if the air is -30C
What's important is the difference between the water and air temperatures, not the absolute temperatures.

[BlackCat]

Yes and no. If the water temperature is close to 0, then it doesn't happen. The water needs to be "warm" (not meaning any temperature that you want to bath in ) before it happens.

The water temperature needs to be above zero if you want serious vaporising.

[Zkribbler]

...That's because, if it's below 0, it's called "ice"??

[BlackCat]

If you are talking about "canadian beer" you are rigth, but salt water can go a couple of degrees lower before getting icy.

[Dry]

Ingrid: my post was not about the steam.
It was more to say there is no difference to go swimming in a 0C water when it's +5C, -10C or -20C outside as long as you don't wet your head/hairs.
... well, and maybe wear a hat if it's -20C.

[Combat Ingrid]

Dry: Ok

BlackCat: yes it does happen also when the water is close to zero, if the air is cold enough. I should know that after thirty winters in the frozen realm of Norrland

[Serb]

Originally posted by Seeker
He wrote 'Gulag Achipelago' where you can see Russian culture in action...and 'August 1914' where you can see Russian military excellence in action...

In any of his books you can see marasmus in action.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
which is all teh evil zionist capitalist propaganda. You should know by now...

Soltzhenitsin is crazy traitor, simple as that.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Dry

Don't want to hurt your russian feelings Serb, but liquid water is always at 0C , regardless of external temp, even -80C.
To drop below that, you need unpure (sea, polluted,...) or depressurised water.
Outside temperature is meaningless here... well, as long as you don't step out, of course...

edit: I wrote pressurised water first, but I think it is rather depressurised water.

Thanks for the physics lesson, dude.
But I always thought that liquid water always becomes a solid water aka ice at 0C (at normal atmospheric pressure, of course).
What you failed to understand is there is a big difference to undress and dive into an ice-hole when it's -0C and to do the same when it's -40C. When you get out of water you are wet. Had you ever experienced WTF is -40C while you wearing a winter gear, you could probably understand WHAT KIND OF HELL IS THAT to be naked and wet when it's -40C even for a short period of time. I can assure in case of -40C you would fell much different than at -5C or 0C.
That's what I meant.

[Serb]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Don't want to hurt your Swedish feelings Combat, but Serb isn't right. What your (or rather Saras) nice pic shows. only happens when the water is relatively hot - not if the water temp is close to 0.

This only shows that you never seen an ice-hole while it's well below -30C. Our rivers usually do not have any geothermal sources and the tempterature of water, basically is under influence of external outside temperture. So, the colder the air outside, the thicker the ice on the river and the colder the water below the ice layer. Simple as that.
So, all claims that the temperature of water is always the same regardless of the outside temperature are plain wrong. This temperature can't drop below 0C, it's true, but it's still different for -40C and 0C.
When it's 0C you need several hours to see how an ice layer forms. When it's -40C and you need to commit a religious ritual, you need a couple of guys with shovels who will scoop-out the ice which generates in an ice-hole constantly. The ice forms pretty quickly and you actually can see that with your own eyes and don't need hours of observation. And sure this proccess accompanied by visible "steam" generation.

[Serb]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Yes and no. If the water temperature is close to 0, then it doesn't happen. The water needs to be "warm" (not meaning any temperature that you want to bath in ) before it happens.

The water temperature needs to be above zero if you want serious vaporising.

Of course it's above zero. The only question is how much it's above zero. I dare to claim that:
1) at 0C outside, the temperature of water is more above zero, than when it's -40C outside.
2) the colder the outside temperature, the more visible vaporization becomes.
3) when it's below -30C outside and water's temp is close to zero, the "steam" becomes pretty much visible.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Dry
Ingrid: my post was not about the steam.
It was more to say there is no difference to go swimming in a 0C water when it's +5C, -10C or -20C outside as long as you don't wet your head/hairs.
... well, and maybe wear a hat if it's -20C.

1) Once again, at 0C water becomes ice.
2) When you dive, your head/hairs become wet and there is no way you can avoid it when you commit this religious ritual (no hats allowed).

[Serb]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
BlackCat: yes it does happen also when the water is close to zero, if the air is cold enough. I should know that after thirty winters in the frozen realm of Norrland