Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is there hope for democracy in the Middle East?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is there hope for democracy in the Middle East?

    On 'Poly, we generally have a bleak picture of the internal politics in Middle East countries. However, the bleakness is far from obvious IMO. This thread is to discuss whether there is a potential for democracy in the Middle East.

    My contention is that the democratization of the Middle East has had new, significant perspectives in the last few years.

    Firstly, Saudi Arabia had its first elections ever last year, local elections. It is a significant step IMO, because it shows that the monarch accepts the idea of not being the only ruler of the country. Before, the monarch was the only arbiter between the conflicting demands of the radical religious, the moderate religious, and foreign pressure. Now, the decisions are likely to become increasingly decentralized.

    Secondly, Egypt had contested presidential elections, where Mubarak won with "only" 80%. Of course, it's definitely not a democratic vote. However, that election sparked a long-awaited political debate, in which the population in interested, and in which there was a relative free speech. For the first time, the Egyptian political scene alked about economics, domestic problems, and the campaign wasn't only about blaming the US or Israel.
    Considering that the Mubarak regime is sustained by the apathy of the population, the appearance of a public opinion is a considerable step for democratization in the future.
    The parliamentary elections of last december showed that apathy is clearly not there anymore. While the campaign was relatively free, the voting was marred with voter-intimidation, and even sometimes with the police firing on would-be opposition (Muslim Brotherhood) voters. Yet, the opposition made huge gains, and the debate was genuine. I think Egypt is set for having a legal Islamic government at one point, if it wants to avoid being a new Algeria.

    As for Iran, it looks dire, but I beg to differ. Ahmadinejad is the first president who isn't a cleric. Besides, since he isn't in open conflict with the theocrats, this layman becomes the public voice of Iran. IMO, this situation can lead to two positives: 1. that the Iranians identify more with their president as an actual leader rather than as a puppet, and 2. that the presidential position is strengthened. Obviously, Ahmadinejad won't be the one who'll democratize Iran. But if he strengthens his job, the next president might well be the one who makes a big difference.
    It is also noticeable that the reactionary Parliament elected in 2004 (well, "conservative" by Iranian stadards) has elected the first non-clerical speaker. Ahmadinejad's government also has very few clerics (only 2). I think it does speak for a laymanization of Iranian politics.

    I can't really say for Iraq, because the situation is way too chaotic right now. The future of democracy in Iraq will mucho depend on whether the country splits or not, and on whether the violence results in a civil war or not.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

  • #2
    Nice analysis. I'm not too sure how it will come out in the end, because I don't think that there is only one way history progresses. We may see reversals of trends in both directions.

    Comment


    • #3
      I see two major stumbling blocks to the "democratization" of the Middle East:

      1.) First and foremost is the dominance of State Religion. As long as politics is dictated from the clergy, then reasonable debate of secular issues will be hard to obtain. It is highly likely, at this point, that any democracy movements will deteriorate into theocracy.

      2.) The Arab-Israeli conflict. As long as there is a strong perceived enemy/oppressor then the people of The Middle East are far more likely to accept dictatorial powers in the name of security. All one has to do is to look to the current curtailment of civil rights in the US to see how easy it is to slide along that path.

      However, all that being said, the attempt to democratize is worth the effort. Even if it is a "two steps forward...one step back" process, it will provide a momentum to move in the right direction.

      The free elections in Iraq and Afghanistan are very encouraging from a standpoint of voter participation. It seems that people really do want a say in their future. If the choices they make are wise ones, then democracy may spread and flourish. If the choices they make are poor, then we could see a degeneration into theocracy...with all the self righteous bias that it brings.
      "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PLATO
        I see two major stumbling blocks to the "democratization" of the Middle East:

        1.) First and foremost is the dominance of State Religion. As long as politics is dictated from the clergy, then reasonable debate of secular issues will be hard to obtain. It is highly likely, at this point, that any democracy movements will deteriorate into theocracy.
        Sometimes I wonder if they first have to go through this with their theocratic guys messing up everything Taleban style before democracy has a real chance. I hope I'm being wrong.
        Blah

        Comment


        • #5
          I very much doubt any trust towards a democratic ME will spring from the major powers in the region, including the US and especially those with oil wealth. It's far more likely it will blossom in small countries such as Palestina and Lebanon first, it has already been doing to some extent.
          Last edited by Colonâ„¢; January 16, 2006, 13:25.
          DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Lebanon

            I think they've got a decent shot at it.

            As for the rest... too early to say, and there are many pitfalls.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              The problem is that democracy in the ME will often mean Islamists coming to power, which will scare the west, leading to secular dictators being installed, making the people hate the west even more and to look to the islamists and extremists even more...

              Comment


              • #8
                Lebanon is sadly not very likely to lead to change anywhere. After all, Lebanon was alreeady once a successful republic, before it imploded in the mid 70's. The demographic mess that is Lebanon is volitile.

                Lets be honest here though, people in this thread are not talking about democracy. They are talking Liberal democracy. That is a different thing.

                Democracy certainly has a shot, even in the short term. Iran for example is certainly more dmeocratic than Egypt- in the sense that voters have more choice, and their vote does matter more, even if at the end rule rests in clerics- everyone knows that, so there is less pretension about politics.

                Now, Liberal democracy is not coming soon.
                If you don't like reality, change it! me
                "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is true. Theocratic democracy (or something like that) is certainly possible... it just won't look much like our democratic republics.

                  I think what Bebro mentioned is likely true: the clerics need to be handed power and **** things up. The one thing about democracy is that the leaders are (more) accountable to the people (than in any other system) and thus expectations tend to rise. Failure tends to mean you lose the next election (TENDS, note "2004 Presidential Election, USA" as an exception).

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Arrian
                    (TENDS, note "2004 Presidential Election, USA" as an exception).
                    No, Diebold stole Ohio for Bush.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is nothing in Islam that is inherently anti-democrati. It might very well be anti-Liberal.

                        The problem in Iran was the status of clerics in Shia Islam, where clerics earn a large amount of legitimacy with experience. Sunni Islam has very little inherent hierarchy.

                        The biggest problem in Islam is that the set of four different schools of islamic legal thinking stopped being innovated upon about 600-700 years ago and became static. Clerics need to start catching up.
                        If you don't like reality, change it! me
                        "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                        "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                        "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Which they aren't interested in. Instead, they want to go back.

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Arrian
                            Which they aren't interested in. Instead, they want to go back.

                            -Arrian
                            Not the clerics. Osama and most of the guys in his org. don't appear AFAIK to be university trained theologians, but born again types- since Islam encourages a direct relation with God, making clerics unnecessary.

                            By clerics I mean the types who actually try to examine the holy writings, as opposed to having chosen one view that they like and sticking to it fanatically.
                            If you don't like reality, change it! me
                            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is there hope for democracy in the Middle East?

                              I'd settle for Florida.
                              Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios

                              www.tecumseh.150m.com

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X