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The Inflation of Education in Finland

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  • The Inflation of Education in Finland

    It's true.

    It didn't used to matter where you went, if you went to a University, if you went to Polytechnics... They all were considered 'equal' in some way, with the exception of clearly superior schools, like University of Helsinki.

    Now I do mean between these schools of same level. These days, Polytechnics are going to be University of Applied Science. WTF?? Why confuse the situation, they aren't universities, not even by definition, since they don't have reseach projects going on, period.

    So what does it matter you might ask. Why are you being so sensitive, are you afraid that people from Polytechnics are competing with the same jobs? No, that's not the problem. The set of skills isn't defined by what school that person went. Idiots are everywhere, even in Universities.

    But it does give some kind of inflation to University studies when we start to blur the lines, since the level of education in these so called University of applied science-places hasn't risen. Seems they have actually gone a bit lower.

    The official goal is to have 70% of our people with higher education. I don't understand what purpose this goal serves. But it guarantees one thing, it guarantees the inflation of education, it guarantees lower salaries for highly educated people, it guarantees overall worsening results for people with 'high education'.

    Because the standards are not the same, and it seems to me we are ready to lower them to get to the goal. As a direct result, we shall have tons and tons of people with nice titles, yet their set of skills is the same as when we had 20% higher educated people. As a direct result, what I feel is worse personally for me, is that since every school seems to be a university now (even though they aren't), our reputation in the world will not get better, but the opposite. When enough of these new masters of camoflague go into the world to spread the gospel of fast food degrees, they can't tell the difference anymore in there either. They will just figure, that university students in Finland are **** and that there is no guarantees of any kind that there is even potential.

    What makes it impossible to fight is that of course now that everyone gets into those schools if they bother to apply is that they start being the majority, thus there's no chance in hell we will ever have this situation changed.

    Let me make it clear, the quality and set of skills remains the same, yet we suddenly have all kinds of title holders who are 'equivalent' of those who applied to real university and passed it and basically are real M.Sc's and what not.

    Yes, there will be same amount of those who also have the set of skills for sure. But the title holding is leading us all to the ditch at the end, and if I land on top, I will pound everyone with my fists, because I'm cool like that.

    None of this makes any sense. Why do we need 70% of our people to be highly educated? The simple fact is, we don't have 70% of people who are qualified for it, who have the .. requirements for it. So we just lower the requirements. What goal does this serve, it just blows a truckload of kaka into everyone elses faces.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    Obviously they are wanting to draw students from foreign countries into Finland by resorting to this kind of marketing. That a higher percentage needs a higher education results from the current post-industrialist tendencies. As it will soon no longer be profitable to physically produce anything here, we want to become a nation of innovators living off the information technology branch.

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    • #3
      70% does seem a little high, but I do think that the capabilities of people to be highly educated shouldn't be underestimated.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #4
        A funny thing i just remembered was that while trying to draw in more foreign students, they are introducing tuition fees for foreign students at the University of Helsinki, and the only foreigners I know that are studying in there are doing so just because there are no tuition fees... otherwise, who on earth would want to come to study HERE of all places?

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        • #5
          I can come and make kebab, there's always demand for that

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          • #6
            Now that I have read most of Pekka's post, I can comment. That sounds like the Bologne system they are introducing here. Basically, they are dumbing down the Universities and upping the technical schools so that instead of a small number of very good and too broadly educated people we get a smaller number of people who can actually do something and get a job.

            The way it was, universities were wery strict and it took 6-7 or more years on average to get a diploma on a 4.5 year nominal programme. Now they are trying the new system which gives you Bsc after 3 years, Msc after 5 and then you are off to doctorate.

            The goal is same as in Finland. The only thing is, people with University diplomas are only 7% of population here, so there is a sense of urgency about this. The EU and especially US averages are much higher.

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            • #7
              Vet, guess what, they introduced the Bologna model in here too, just recently for Unis as well. But I understand that one, compability with other schools in the world and especially in Europe. But it has it's bad sides too, this recent trend I don't understand at all.

              The way I see it, since many schools around the globe do this, we think why should our Polytechnic students fall back and lose, since they have the same education, thus let's get the same name too. This I feel is fair, why should they suffer in the world markets because everyone else is having wild titles too.

              However it's not helping anyone in the long run and makes no sense in general.

              I don't know how the EU fairs but most in US go to college. That is Bachelours, that is comparable to Poly degree, in sense of level of education.

              DanS, I absolutely agree with you, but if it means lowering the standards, I disagree. I think we should aim high and make it possible for everyone to attend and get their degrees and study what they want, high degrees, IF THEY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS. No dumbification process before that. I think that's the key.

              Otherwise they are nothing but empty titles. It hurts everyone in the long run. Those who have those empty titles, because they can be superqualified and awesome, but they have this title that everyone knows means nothing. So no open doors for the opportunity to show skill, also the ones who have real degree, you know they get mixed up and it's all a blur.

              It's just titles, good sides, nothing. Bad sides, lower quality in general, blurring the vision and confusing for everyone etc etc.

              We have had Polys counted as 'higher education', which is questionable, however not too far fetched and could be. You know, why not? And quality Poly schools, they are quality schools, quality stuff all the way. So I agree, they are higher education for sures just like anyone else, the Unis etc. But they are NOT Unis. Just simply because trhey aren't, they are different set of schools, and they don't fill the definition of one. So I don't see why they need to be shopping with the new name, it's really quite obvious they try to lift the value of it by using the same name, otherwise there is no need for name change. But just changing the name and not the content, it gets us nowhere. Thus, inflation of it all.
              In da butt.
              "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
              THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
              "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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              • #8
                Sounds like Finland is doing what the UK did 15-20 years ago. The result there was that more people worked in higher education (especially as they weren't capable of holding down real jobs anywhere else), standards dropped and the politicians claimed a success because more people got more imposing bits of paper to prove they were qualified.

                If you haven't been to "university" in the UK it's hard to even get a job with the council emptying dustbins.

                All Maggie's fault.
                Never give an AI an even break.

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                • #9
                  dp
                  Never give an AI an even break.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cerberus, this is also true. We already have very high demands for jobs, as far as education normally goes. Because everyone has it. Does it reflect to salaries? No.

                    It's employers market 100%. I don't think this will benefit us in the long run, and not even in the short run.
                    In da butt.
                    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CerberusIV
                      If you haven't been to "university" in the UK it's hard to even get a job with the council emptying dustbins.
                      Do you also have ridiculous PC titles for such jobs nowadays? I think over here, that job is supposed to be called something like "sanitary technician", which sounds like a job you need higher education to qualify for
                      Also, if you work as a cleaner, you're a "hygiene technician".
                      The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.

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                      • #12
                        lol, we are not in that bad of a shape yet, but we're driving hard towards it!
                        In da butt.
                        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Come here Pekka. Free smoke for every Bologna student. And arab gangrapes of Erasmus students once every 3 months. Special offer.
                          I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

                          Asher on molly bloom

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                          • #14
                            ???? I don't get this one, even though I tried to.
                            In da butt.
                            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am drunk
                              I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

                              Asher on molly bloom

                              Comment

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