It always seems to be hard to get behind unions in strikes

[Apocalypse]

Every union dispute seems to be either
1) Company is dying (airlines/GM)
2) Workers have it pretty good, especially compared to others in the area (New York transpo)

Maybe it's because those are the only ones that get ratings on TV news. I mean, with #1 you can blame the original problem on management pretty easily and usually the people who originally created the problems are gone. There just don't seem to be any clear workers are in the right and should get what they want situations anymore.

[Solly]

Unions are there to support the insider, keeping wages high and conditions sweet, at the expense of the unemployed outsider who finds himself locked out due to an increased burden on employers.

[Dis]

I find this funny considering the avatar of Apcalypse. That's a picture of Kramer striking.

You have to support Kramer's strike. Bagels No!

[Apocalypse]

Yeah, I've been using it for a couple years now when I noticed no one else used it but always joked about it.

[Sava]

I don't understand why people complain about unions. Do people understand what things were like before unions? Or what things would be like without them?

Go read up on what labor conditions were like before union movements okay guys.

The people who stand the most to gain from things if there were no unions, or if unions' powers were not as strong would be major corporations and large employers. And things would be worse for everyone... not just unions, because then companies would be allowed to exploit ALL workers.

So while sometimes unions might do things that may seem ridiculous, like making outrageous demands during negotiations or whatnot, or while in some cases, some unions may be corrupt... things would be a lot worse most people if unions did not exist.

Unless you guys think 80 hour work weeks, child labor, and no benefits are a good thing...

[Dis]

There is no doubt unions in the early days were a good thing. But as always, power corrupts.

Though I used to be in a union. It was actually a very good union. Their pension fund didn't lose any money. They invested it wisely. Great union, but I hated the type of work. So I quit my job and the union.

[Sava]

I think that unions serve a purpose, even today. Corporations still have way more power than unions do... and in the grand scheme of things, big corporations do more things to screw people than unions do. In fact, unions should be applauded for keeping things balanced. Without them, who would be around to keep corporate power in check? The government?

Not while Republicans are in power. You can bet your ass that won't happen.

And unions at least are run in a somewhat democratic way... with members voting for leadership. Seems to me that is a better way to keep the power in check.

IMO, if I were to rank the entities in our country that need to be worried about the most in terms of how they can screw America the most, unions would be lower on the list than other things... just quickly I'll list some things... and this list who screws the public the most... granted, this will be in very general terms...

corporations (some kinds more than others)
political lobbyists
government (repukes mostly)
mainstream news media
right wing think tanks

and unions would be farther down this list... probably not next, but I can't think of more stuff to list right now...

[Solly]

Sava, unions served a purpose once, and probably will do at some point again in the less developed world.

Now they only act to exclude outsiders from competing for the jobs of the current employees.

Read up insider-outsider theory and you'll understand.

[Sava]

Unions exist to serve the interests of their members.

I'm sure lots of anti-union morons have lots of crackpot theories.

Now don't you have some gay people or minorities to harass?

[Dis]

also, at least the case with my old union and my city. Unions actually increase the wages of non-union workers of the same trade!. Most casinos are non union in my city. The only reason they get paid so much, is because the companies must compete with unions to get qualified workers.

Yeah you can argue that the high wages forces them to hire less people which leads to higher unemployment. But I just don't see it. Even at non union places, they work the workers to the bone and use as few as they can to get the work done. You never see a place highering more people than they need because they pay them so little.

but on the flip side some unions are very corrupt and steal pension money from the people they serve.

[Apocalypse]

I think unions are good to a point. What I am saying is that it seems that all the press about the unions are when they are doing things it's hard to agree with. Another is the teacher unions. Due to the teacher shortages, people only see them as helping the bad/lazy teachers stay bad/lazy.

[RGBVideo]

Union leaders are greedy and/or have no PR sense whatsoever?

[Az]

What I am saying is that it seems that all the press about the unions are when they are doing things it's hard to agree with.

there's your answer.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I think unions are good to a point. What I am saying is that it seems that all the press about the unions are when they are doing things it's hard to agree with. Another is the teacher unions. Due to the teacher shortages, people only see them as helping the bad/lazy teachers stay bad/lazy.

I think the reason we have so many bad teachers in America is because we don't attract quality people to the profession because the pay and benefits suck so much compared to other professions.

To blame unions for the problem is... well, dumb...

[Az]

Sava, don't you know? the addition of a lack of job security to the ridiculous paycheck is a vigorous and stimulating job enviroment!