CanPol: Thread of the Year Edition

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Really? The Conservative candidate didn't look like much (no political history whatsoever), and although there is a heavy French presence in his riding, they're not particularly separatist. The BQ candidate is also very young. Both of them look like lambs to the slaughter.

That riding's been solidly red for quite some time. The PC won it in 1984, but other than that it's always fallen for them.

Going by a pollster *spit* who said that maybe only 8 seats would go Liberal, and Martin's wasn't one of them that could be counted on.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


A lot of history in them. Ever hear of the Lachine canal?

EDIT: plus, respectively, that should be haystack west and haystack east...

Hay! I'm an expert on haystacks. can we at least agree on that?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


We already have icebreakers that can clear the way for navy ships, not that we would ever need to use them that way. Much easier and far faster to send in troops by air if necessary.

Agreed that air is the fastest way to transport troops. I just think that if such vessels are available, Canada should have at least one armed ship that can travel all Canadian waters at any time.

Originally posted by Tingkai


As for posting troops in Iqualuit, we would have to base their families up north too.

The reg forces will go where they are told to go, but it is important to realize that a posting like Iqualuit is hard on military families, just as the constant postings overseas are hard on the families left behind. The spouses will be forced to move to a place that has no jobs, or stay down south away from their spouse.

Now if there is a vital need, that's different, but in this case, the troops would be up north doing nothing.

A couple of questions

1. Do the forces not do rotational postings at all? By this I mean 4-6 week stints at a more remote outpost.

2. Does Canada own icebreakers capable of traversing the north ? I've seen differing opinions in this thread-- Does anyone have a source

3. Couldn't a base in iqualiut be something like an Arctic training base where units could go for specialized cold-weather survival skills and training?


I don't know how practical such a posting would be, but in general, I think Canada has to start doing something to show it has some presence on the northen fringes. If 50 or 100 troops at a time have to go north from time to time fro training and to show the flag, that doesn't seem too bad to me

[Kontiki]

http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/ice-gla/fleet_e.htm

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kontiki
http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/ice-gla/fleet_e.htm

Interesting-- I knew we had an icebreaker fleet

But the question was unanswered by what I read in the site. A look are the Arctic operations revealed that the icebreakers avoid Arctic waters for most of the ice season as they move south to work elsewhere.

That seems the most prudent use of available resources but does not answer the question of whether these ice-breakers would be CAPABLE of traversing the north in the height of the ice season.

[notyoueither]

Oww, this is gonna hurt.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/12/28/goodalecbc051228.html

Goodale says he won't step aside
Last Updated Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:40:03 EST
CBC News
Finance Minister Ralph Goodale said Wednesday night in an interview on CBC's The National that he is not going to bow to political pressure and step aside while the RCMP conducts a criminal investigation into a possible leak of information from his department.

"The RCMP said in their statement of this afternoon that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on my part- or on the part of anyone else for that matter," Goodale said in an interview with the CBC's chief correspondent Peter Mansbridge.

"They are examining this situation because of the seriousness of the allegations. This is not an allegation of jaywalking, it's an allegation of something much more serious than that, but it is just that, it is an allegation. It is not by any means proven and I know I've examined my own conduct in this matter and I'm confident that conduct is consistent with 30 years of integrity and trust in public life."

Questioned repeatedly about why he won't step aside until the investigation is complete, Goodale said it is not the RCMP that has made allegations about him personally, "the opposition have made those allegations."

The RCMP, said Goodale, "have said they are looking into this matter because of the seriousness of the allegation. They have, at the same time, said they have no information, no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of anyone - most particularly on my part - and quite frankly if I were to resign under those circumstances I believe I would only feed allegations that are out there in the context of a very political situation."

On Nov. 23, the federal government announced just before 6 p.m. EST, it would cut the tax on corporate dividends and would make no changes to the tax on income trusts. That's the type of news that is always announced after stock markets close at 4 p.m. EST because it would give a boost to those types of securities.

But there have been allegations since that time that information about the changes was leaked early, allowing some in the know to profit from the information. There was heavy trading in some stocks and trusts, as well as spikes in share prices just before the close of trading.

On Wednesday a letter surfaced from RCMP Commissioner Guiliano Zaccardelli confirming the force was launching a criminal investigation into the alleged leak of information.

[notyoueither]

Does this sound like 'no evidence of wrongdoing'? The RCMP launch a criminal investigation during an election campaign why? They feel like having fish for supper?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/28/goodale051228.html

RCMP investigates allegations of income trust leaks
Last Updated Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:38:35 EST
CBC News
The RCMP has launched a criminal investigation into to the release of information by the Department of Finance, related to the income trust issue.

RCMP Commissioner Guiliano Zaccardelli confirmed the investigation in a letter to NDP finance critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis. "We would like to advise you that a review of this matter has been completed. Based on the information obtained during the review, the RCMP will be commencing a criminal investigation," he wrote.

On Nov. 23, the federal government announced just before 6 p.m. EST, it would cut the tax on corporate dividends and would make no changes to the tax on income trusts. That's the type of news that is always announced after stock markets close at 4 p.m. EST because it would give a boost to those types of securities.

But there have been allegations since that time that information about the changes was leaked early, allowing some in the know to profit from the information.

Trading in many trusts and dividend-paying stocks became much heavier than usual in the hour or two before the market's closed on Nov. 23, and share prices rose sharply.

Forensic accountant Al Rosen told CBC News on Wednesday that he is convinced there was a leak of information. "I'm 90 per cent plus sure, but once again, in our business we have to be 100 per cent sure. And that is why the investigation is needed; to look at the volumes, the prices, at a whole cross-section of the trusts and the dividend paying stocks. And there's a third category of other stocks that will benefit from the trading," Rosen said in an interview with Newsworld Business News.

Wasylycia-Leis has called for Finance Minister Ralph Goodale to step down from his cabinet position while the investigation is underway. "Mr. Goodale is personally responsible to ensure his office and his department protect average Canadians from the consequences of improper disclosures," she said in a news release.

Conservative leader Stephen Harper also called for Goodale to step down. He told reporters in Prince Rupert, B.C. that Goodale's handling of the finance portfolio has been "brutally incompetent."

Goodale shot back that he was not going to submit to accusations from the opposition.

"There is no personal allegation of wrongdoing against me. I have looked at this situation very carefully and I am absolutley confident about my conduct in this matter and I do not see any basis upon which to resign," Goodale said Wednesday night in Regina.

[Tingkai]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Flubber
1. Do the forces not do rotational postings at all? By this I mean 4-6 week stints at a more remote outpost.


Usual short-term postings are six months, not including special training courses.

In theory, the Forces could keep two rotating crews to man a northern base, but it doesn't have the luxury of that kind of manpower.

Originally posted by Flubber
3. Couldn't a base in iqualiut be something like an Arctic training base where units could go for specialized cold-weather survival skills and training?

The Forces have existing facilities in Whitehorse and Yellowknife. Bagotville and Cold Lake are often used for winter training exercises. So adding Iquluit wouldn't bring any additional benefit while adding a lot of extra costs.

Originally posted by Flubber
I don't know how practical such a posting would be, but in general, I think Canada has to start doing something to show it has some presence on the northen fringes. If 50 or 100 troops at a time have to go north from time to time fro training and to show the flag, that doesn't seem too bad to me

A simple thing to do is to simply increase the size of the Rangers, the reserve unit in the Artic. There are 4,000 of them, but not sure how many are north of 60. And who knows whether they would be able to find more recruits.

Also the rangers are not really a fighting force.

Still the Rangers fly the flag on a routine basis north of 60, but it ain't news.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


The Forces have existing facilities in Whitehorse and Yellowknife. Bagotville and Cold Lake are often used for winter training exercises. So adding Iquluit wouldn't bring any additional benefit while adding a lot of extra costs.

You must be joking-- All those places are far inland and bagotville is south of Newfoundland. NOne of those places are anywhere on or near the northern island that we would want to show the flag on. I will grant that those places are cold and snowy enough for training purposes but none give us a presence in the far north.

Lets put it this way, the Liberals have wasted far more money on things far more frivolus than trying to maintain a presence in our north.

[Richelieu]

The infamous gun registry for example.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Richelieu
The infamous gun registry for example.

Of course-- that one plus adscam just are so obvious-- I wonder if any Liberal can call a Conservative spending program "wasteful' with a straight face

[Wezil]

Of course they can. A Liberal can say absolutely anything with a straight face.

[notyoueither]

Or with a smile?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/29/layton-blog051229.html

NDP slams Liberal attack on Layton's smile
Last Updated Thu, 29 Dec 2005 15:17:10 EST
CBC News
A Liberal cabinet minister's comment that Jack Layton has a "boiled dog's head smile" is culturally insensitive and disrespectful to the NDP leader, party representatives say.

The comment is an English translation of a Chinese insult.

But Industry Minister David Emerson has said he used the phrase as a joke.

The comment first appeared in a blog written by Jamie Elmhirst, the federal Liberals' B.C. president.

"How did Minister Emerson describe his style at our convention dinner?" Elmhirst wrote in the Dec. 5 blog entry. "Oh yes, he said that Jack Layton had a 'boiled dog's head smile.' That would have made even me wince if I hadn't have been laughing so hard."

Mary-Woo Sims, the Lower Mainland NDP candidate who once headed the now-defunct B.C. Human Rights Commission, said joke or no joke, the Liberals are being culturally insensitive.

She said it is insulting to compare someone to a dog in Chinese culture, and that politicians should not lower the debate to that level.

"People may not understand – or in the mainstream community they may not understand – the very personal nature and the impact that being compared to a dog has on a person of Chinese background. So it's just not acceptable in this day and age."

Stanley Tsao, an NDP campaign spokesman, told the Canadian Press that the phrase is Cantonese in origin and can be taken a number of ways depending on the context.

He said the remark showed "arrogance and disrespect," especially in light of comments about Layton and his wife Olivia Chow that appeared in another Liberal's blog last week.

A senior Ontario Liberal campaign official, Mike Klander, resigned earlier this week after comparing Chow to a chow chow dog. The longtime Toronto municipal politician is running as the NDP's federal candidate in the Toronto riding of Trinity-Spadina.

Emerson, who is running for re-election in Vancouver Kingsway, said he got the "boiled dog's head" term from his Hong Kong-born wife and wasn't trying to be disrespectful.

"It was in reference to his constant chattering away with this great big grin on his face, pasted on, kind of an overextended grin," Emerson told the Canadian Press.

"It's a Cantonese expression which I use on myself and my wife uses on me all the time when I have to pose for pictures."

Emerson said he made the remark in a speech at a dinner during the B.C. federal Liberals' convention the weekend before the election call.

"I was referring to constantly seeing Jack Layton looking like a boiled dog's head, talking about some of these shallow, ideologically driven policies of the NDP.

"She's got tons of them," he said of his wife's colourful phrases. "We certainly use it in our family and my wife says it's commonly used in the Cantonese community. It certainly wasn't meant as disrespectful."

On Thursay, Layton dismissed Emerson's comments as a "descent into silliness" and said, "It doesn't bother me."

But he lashed out against the Liberal blog that compared his wife to a dog.

He said it wasn't long ago, when Europe controlled portions of China, that there were signs in parks that read: "No dogs or Chinese allowed."

"An executive vice-president of the Liberal party has compared a woman city councillor and candidate with that cultural heritage to a dog. What does this tell us about the Liberal party?" Layton asked. "It reminds us that insults flow from arrogance. There is far too much of this in today's Liberal party.

"I certainly hope that racial slurs will come to an end in this campaign. I frankly never expected that we would face such things."

[notyoueither]

Stand by your man? Or, the captain goes down with the ship?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/29/elxn_goodalecbc051229.html

PM backs Goodale despite RCMP probe
Last Updated Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:58:42 EST
CBC News
Saying he has "complete confidence" in Ralph Goodale, Prime Minister Paul Martin insists there's no need for the finance minister to step aside while the RCMP probes a possible leak of information from his department.

Martin read from a prepared statement on Thursday before meeting with Arab community leaders in Montreal.

"I have complete confidence in Ralph Goodale," said the Liberal party leader, who has been taking a holiday break from campaigning leading up to the Jan. 23 general election. "He is a good, honest man and a person of the highest integrity and he will not be stepping down."

Martin's comments came after Goodale appeared on CBC's The National on Wednesday night to say he would not leave office.

Hours earlier, the New Democratic Party said it had been informed the RCMP would investigate an NDP MP's complaint that Goodale's office may have been involved in a leak of information that affected stock market activity.

On Thursday, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper said during a campaign stop in Vancouver that it doesn't matter whether the finance minister steps down during the probe, because the issue goes beyond whether Goodale was involved.

The latest incident follows the pattern of Liberal corruption and entitlement, he said.

"It's the final nail," Harper said. "Ralph Goodale can stay on and run around in his limousine until Jan. 23. What's important is that he and his government are run out of office. This government has not earned the benefit of the doubt."

NDP Leader Jack Layton said during his campaign stop in Toronto the same day that Goodale's decision not to step aside speaks to his judgment.

"It is blindingly obvious, based on ample precedent, that when a minister's department is under criminal investigation ... the minister should step aside," said Layton.

Heavy trading followed announcement

The allegation involved a Nov. 23 announcement that the federal government would not change taxes on income trusts. An unusual amount of market trading erupted before the late-afternoon announcement, which came less than a week before the minority Liberal government fell on a confidence motion.

Goodale told CBC News he would not bow to political pressure and leave his cabinet post during the RCMP investigation. Cabinet ministers often step down when they are the target of investigations into alleged wrongdoing.

"The RCMP said in their statement of this afternoon that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on my part, or on the part of anyone else for that matter," Goodale told the CBC's chief correspondent, Peter Mansbridge.

"They are examining this situation because of the seriousness of the allegations."

Goodale emphasized that the allegations have not been proven.

"This is not an allegation of jaywalking; it's an allegation of something much more serious than that," he said, "but it is just that - it is an allegation.

"It is not by any means proven and I know I've examined my own conduct in this matter and I'm confident that conduct is consistent with 30 years of integrity and trust in public life."

Questioned repeatedly about why he won't step aside until the investigation is complete, Goodale said RCMP officials aren't at the root of the allegations. "The opposition have made those allegations."

The RCMP, he added, "have said they are looking into this matter because of the seriousness of the allegation.

"They have, at the same time, said they have no information, no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of anyone - most particularly on my part - and quite frankly if I were to resign under those circumstances, I believe I would only feed allegations that are out there in the context of a very political situation."

On Nov. 23, the federal government announced just before 6 p.m. EST it would cut the tax on corporate dividends and would make no changes to the tax on income trusts. It's news that is always announced after stock markets close at 4 p.m. EST because it would give a boost to those types of securities.

But since then, there have been allegations that information about the changes was leaked early, allowing some in the know to profit from it. There was heavy trading in some stocks and trusts, as well as spikes in share prices just before the close of trading.

A letter that surfaced Wednesday from the RCMP's commissioner, Guiliano Zaccardelli, confirmed the force was launching a criminal investigation into the alleged information leak.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Flubber


You must be joking-- All those places are far inland and bagotville is south of Newfoundland. NOne of those places are anywhere on or near the northern island that we would want to show the flag on. I will grant that those places are cold and snowy enough for training purposes but none give us a presence in the far north.

I never said those bases were on the ocean. I was pointing out that we have plenty of bases where winter training can be done.

As for showing the flag, we have a station at Alert. There is also an airfield at Pond Inlet that can handle CF-18s and transports. We also have Rangers showing the flag.

What would be ridiculous is to spend $9 billion to build a useless base just so we can show the flag.