Der Untergang

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by GePap


German TV series rarely get seen outside of Europe. Doesn't help me any.

Looking at her official webpage, it turns out she's been in a lot of movies, mostly ones directly for TV, but also a bunch for cinema.

All in German, it appears.

[BeBMan]

Yeah, great movie, with a truly excellent Bruno Ganz.

[Pekka]

it's a great film. It's one of those you need to own in dvd..

It's great because it's German and they speak German, plus the acting job is top notch. It has very little actual war scenes, it's more like a drama, but a super powerful.

They display the madness of the situation extremely well, and the insanity of the hardcore high ranking nazis. Like the mass suicides, they did a great job. Because it was shocking. You weren't like 'ok kill yourselves bastards', or even if you were, it was still kind of 'wtf'.. even though you weren't on their side. And how some of them wanted to die or win, and they couldn't win. It was like fudge it, let's take a drink and shoot ourselves. I guess it's what really happened but it was still some great filming none of the less.

I don't understand hwo some claimed that this movie was bad because it made Hitler look like a human. Earth to viewer, Hitler was a human, though twisted one. They wanted him to be more demonized. That would mean twisting the truth?? Sad arguments. Because when I saw the movie, and knowing the history, Hitler himself demonises himself pretty much enough. What do you want to do more? Add few twitching eye scenes? Personally executing some babies? No no.. it was great as it was, truthful, because the truth is horrible enough.

Also the madness when there were teams hunting down people and executing them, while the Rooskies were about to penetrate the last defenses. Why would you, instead of surrendering, or fighting, you would shoot as many 'traitors' as you could, and that would mean innocent people and more like making up traitors? That's some cruel stuff... insanity.

Also anyone who is interested, perhaps the best series ever made about WWII, in World At War, there's a long episode about the secretary, where she gives long interviews. It's really weird and interesting. Because you can see how she has not come to terms with what she was involved with. It's clear it's been a mindfudge. And then again, there's little excuses, so I guess he had blame to the day she died.

It's a great DVD series in all aspects. It's kind of old, but still the greatest and goes into detail about things. It's not a documentary series you can just watch and ask for more, you go into a different state of mind watching it. You get distant, and it's difficult to believe this all happened, and not too long ago. Because it's so insane. Buy it.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

There should be a ban on any more WW2 movies from being made.

[BeBMan]

No, only if they are bad.

[alva]

An absolute great movie!!
And though while I thought I wouldn't be, I was taken by surprise seeing Hitler being well.. human.

[Wernazuma III]

I didn't like the movie too much, though I can't follow the reasoning of feuilleton ciritics (Wim Wenders) either. It was kind of flat and I really disliked how Albert Speer was portrayed. Probably he WAS a friendly guy you would go out for a beer with (not knowing his background), but "Der Untergang" was almost an absolution for this man who had had knowledge of most Nazi crimes, organized German war industry and envisioned megalomanic projects for the greater glory of Nazihood. He gets the absolution because he didn't fully carry out Hitler's last mad orders, great!

Go and watch the documentary "Im toten Winkel" (In the dead corner), a lengthy interview with Hitler's secretary which was the inspiration of the movie. This gives you much more insight about the banal madness in the bunker and how a naive girl got into all this, sticking at the Führer's side until the bitter end.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
I didn't like the movie too much, though I can't follow the reasoning of feuilleton ciritics (Wim Wenders) either. It was kind of flat and I really disliked how Albert Speer was portrayed. Probably he WAS a friendly guy you would go out for a beer with (not knowing his background), but "Der Untergang" was almost an absolution for this man who had had knowledge of most Nazi crimes, organized German war industry and envisioned megalomanic projects for the greater glory of Nazihood. He gets the absolution because he didn't fully carry out Hitler's last mad orders, great!

Agree about Speer, although overall I like Der Untergang. Did you see that 2-part-TV thing about Speer (I think it was "Speer und Er"?), a mixture from documentation and movie? That was IMO great, and much more critical about Speer's role....

[Gangerolf]

I saw that. I think... Did he "walk around the planet" and stuff while in Spandau?

That was pretty good. Not just the walking but all of it. Maybe it was critical about his role, but it still portrayed him as a really nice guy. Maybe he was. Hess was portrayed as a total nutjob IIRC

[Last Conformist]

Hess was a total nutjob.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
I saw that. I think... Did he "walk around the planet" and stuff while in Spandau?

That was pretty good. Not just the walking but all of it. Maybe it was critical about his role, but it still portrayed him as a really nice guy. Maybe he was. Hess was portrayed as a total nutjob IIRC

In the movie scenes of "Speer und Er" also Hitler came out more "human" without banalizing him. In that sense it had a similar approach like Der Untergang, although it was very different in other aspects....

[Gangerolf]

@LC

I know... The entire "parachuting into Scotland to make peace because that's what the astrologer recommends" stunt should be proof enough.

Speer was one of the few sane people, and that makes him even scarier when you consider what he was part of. They should have hung him.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
"parachuting into Scotland to make peace because that's what the astrologer recommends"

Lol