"The War on Christmas"

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Guynemer
I don't think most non-Christians are offended by "Merry Christmas;" I'm certainly not. However, what is wrong with going to a more inclusive "Happy Holidays" language? Non-Christians, not offended by "Merry Christmas," nevertheless feel more comfortable and acknowledged with such language.

Not this non-Christian - I find "happy holidays" annoying and borderline offensive.

I celebrate a festival called Christmas; I do not celebrate one called "holidays". Why on earth should I feel more included in "happy holidays" than in "merry Christmas"?

[Kuciwalker]

Calling things something other than what they are in order to avoid offending people is offensive.

[DanS]

However, what is wrong with going to a more inclusive "Happy Holidays" language?

Because in most areas of the country, it includes nobody, and is therefore absurd. The compromise of reducing the importance of Christmas in order to keep the peace in these areas isn't a very good one.

[ajbera]

I'm agnostic, and I find the term "Happy Holidays" bland and weak. Unless I specifically know a person's religious orientation, I just tell them "Merry Christmas", and I expect them to NOT get their panties in a twist, even if they're die-hard atheists. I also happily accept whetever their response is, be it the gutless "Happy Holidays" or "Happy Kwanzaa" or whatever the Islamic equivalent is (Aid al Fatir?) in the spirit in which it was intended. As Kuci said, anyone who gets offended by a seasonal or holiday greeting is a douchebag.

That said, I have absolutely no problem with the dominant belief system (Christianity, in our case) being the default for the purpose of seasonal greetings or displays. If someone says you cannot put up a Jewish display, for instance, that is most definitely wrong. But for anyone to complain about a Nativity scene or "Merry Christmas" because it's sectarian and non-inclusive is, IMO, a douchebag.

So, as usual, both the religious fundies and the rabid anti-religious turds are wrong, and should just be allowed to meet in an arena to engage in mortal combat. Any survivors will also be shot, just to rid the world of their taint.

Merry Christmas, everybody!

[Datajack Franit]

stupid people should be sterilized. if you don't like me saying merry christmas, please give a gift to the society: go and cut off your reproductive system

[Richelieu]

FESTIVUS!!!

[Shi Huangdi]

Christmas = religious extremism = Terrorism

War on Christmas

Replacing "Merry Christmas" with "Have a jolly safe-sex solsitce, remember to use protection!"

[Admiral]

I feel that many of you are missing the point:

First, is not some overly PC government descending and threatening to take away religion. Its being done by retailers looking to maximize their profits, by including as many people as possible in the holiday shopping. Its the bloody free market, people. You know how I know this? Because on Bill O'reilly's own website, he used to have a section on suggested holiday gifts. Yes, I did say holiday. And yes, I did say Bill O'reilly. Also, on the Fox News site, a O'reilly factor christmas-tree ornament was being sold for the holidays. So really, these people don't actually prefer "christmas" over "the holidays." They are just using it to raise money, complain about liberals, and pretend that they are a minority under attack.

But to address the broader point: I doubt Merry Christmas offends people. That's not the point. The point is that it doesn't include people. Let's face it: the US is not a christian nation, and the fact that a majority of its citizens are christian is irrelevent. We have or should have no interest in making Christmas the only "real" holiday in december. The government has no place making Merry Christmas official, or really a place in the debate at all. This should be a non-issue.

[Cort Haus]

Many, many years ago, long before people started going out of their way to get offended about things like this, I and friends used to go around saying things like "Cool Yule" and "Merry Saternalia" at this time of year. The idea was to place the seasonal festivities in a non-Christian light - not to avoid offending anyone, but just to stick a couple of fingers up to the Church. After all, the traditional festival of Christmas is the pagan winter festival by origin, and the Christians nicked it because it was basically a good party.

What would non-muslims think if muslims started saying "Happy Ramadan" to them at that time of year. I think they'd be very silly to be offended by it, but they might reasonably think it irrelevant.

So, whilst I reject the notion that any religion should be taken as part of the landscape in a secular democracy, I find the contemporary discomfort over Christmas symptomatic of a society very unsure of itself, and oversensitive to people taking offence at things they shouldn't.

So to conclude I think it's silly to be offended by either "Happy Christmas" or "Happy Holidays". It doesn't ****ing matter.

[loinburger]

This is just a manufactured "culture war." Christmas has already been so popularized and consumerized that it's less a religious holiday than it is a national holiday (at least in the US) -- even the atheist couple I'm friends with celebrates Christmas (they've put up a tree and everything) because the whole gift-giving Santa Claus candy cane Yule log Christmas tree business doesn't have a whole helluva lot to do with Jesus. Heck, growing up Catholic the only indication that Christmas was a religious holiday was the fact that we went to church for an hour and they had extra masses to make room for the folks who only go to church on Christmas and Easter.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Admiral
First, is not some overly PC government descending and threatening to take away religion. Its being done by retailers looking to maximize their profits, by including as many people as possible in the holiday shopping.

And this is people responding negatively to this change, suggesting that the retailers might consider that their move to maximize their profits might not be as effective as they intend.

[Az]

Man, I am telling you, I am sick and tired of those arabs giving me the eye when I say "Happy Hannukah" to them. Why can't they be just like everybody else!


Honestly, though, it's a topic are really couldn't care less about.

[Kuciwalker]

That's meaningful, given that you live in Israel.

[Az]

it's just as meaningful as non-christian people who are confused when being saluted with a "merry christmas", i.e. not really.

[Gibsie]

End of the day, Christians can call it what they like, and so can everyone else. If anyone finds the terms offensive, they're stupid, as is anyone finding the use of, "Happy holidays" to be offensive.