Ageism, I Love It

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
umm theres a difference between naughty kids and kids with mental problems, one is the result of bad parenting and the other is the result of mental problems. Unless you're saying that all kids that misbehave are experiencing mental problems. Of course you can't really tell the two types of kids apart, but bad parenting does exist.

Well, yes, but it was Sava who introduced mental problems. My question to him, now that the subject has been broached, "how do you, Mr. Stranger, tell the difference between a kid being a brat (and parents being bad) and a kid being sick (and parents dealing with a bad situation as best they can)?"

You can't. So a little patience would be appreciated.

[Flip McWho]

Oh of course good sir, and I never thought you'd say what I said you might have been meaning.

And you can to a degree. You can judge by the actions of the parents for a starters. One clear way of telling a bad parent from a good parent is probably the reaction of the parent when the kid misbehaves.

But generally I agree. But it won't stop people from ranting about the group of people who are bad parents, possibly not always the example currently used.

[Pyrodrew]

Since the article was about the restaurant, why did some of those parents have such a big problem with the owner's sign? Why weren't they sympathetic to others in the restaurant if they know they have a (potential) brat or sick kid?

[Sava]

Originally posted by JohnT

Sava, you're actually helping my position, which is essentially that the childless need to learn patience because they don't know what's going on. Just like you said, "what if the child has ADD"?

Well... why does that permit Joe Twenty-Something to act all bothered because some poor 6 year-old with mental problems is yelling in the grocery store?

Assigning "blame" on "bad parenting" is the easy way out. Sava, you pointed out a reason other than bad parenting that a child might misbehave. There are others.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Not quite JohnT.

Because if a child has severe ADHD, it's irresponsible to take that child into a public setting in the first place.

And it's easy to tell the difference between a bad parent and a good one. I've seen kids that are obnoxious and the parents just can't control them despite their best efforts. That's perfectly understandable.

Sorry, your "parents are always right" stance just isn't correct.

There are horrible, irresponsible parents out there. And they need to either stay at home, or learn how to properly parent their children. Period.

And I mentioned kids with ADD and ADHD to prove that you were wrong about how kids behave. It is not a calculated, intelligent choice. For some kids, maybe your kid(s), it is. But again, you cannot take your parenting experience and apply it to all children. Sorry, all kids are not the same.

[JohnT]

Sorry, your "parents are always right" stance just isn't correct.

Again, I've never mentioned the parents. Please re-read my posts.

[MikeH]

JohnT

Sava's point is perfectly reasonable.

He's saying that he knows that kids misbehave in public, even ones with the best parents in the world. Most of us Joe Twentysomethings don't mind that situation, the parent is trying to control the situation and we sympathise.

The situation where the kids are running riot and the parents are doing NOTHING is the one that really riles us.


What on earth is there for you to find contraversial about that? You yourself said you had to stop someone elses kid sticking their hand in water they shouldn't have.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Ozzy. Rationality doesn't have much to do with being able to vote. Never has. A child may be rational at whatever age they are, but that doesn't automatically give them the right to vote. Being rational has never given anyone the automatic right to vote.

Then what do you feel it should be based on?

[DinoDoc]

You'll understand when you are older.

[MikeH]

[MikeH]

If it was to do with being rational, most of the people who have the vote now would have to be disqualified.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You'll understand when you are older.

I think someone tried that line on me here once and I turned out to be older than them.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Then what do you feel it should be based on?

It's irrational to base such an important right as voting, based on one's rationality.

Bigots who hate one group of people or another could turn around, and use the cover of "rationality" in justifying denying whole groups of people on the right to vote.

And no, this does not mean that I hate children or teenagers. I'm referring to race, religion, gender, sex orientation, and so forth.

[OzzyKP]

Well most people I talk to about this issue DO base it on rationality. Which is precisely why they want to ban youth from voting. (as you noted, often as a means of disenfranchising groups they don't like).

But if not rationality, what is the standard? Should there be a standard?

[Japher]

how 'bout paying taxes?

[OzzyKP]

Youth pay taxes.

Some poor people do not