Ageism, I Love It

[MikeH]

Parents - your life is over, stay at home. Don't come out with your children and ruin ours.

[KrazyHorse]

[Japher]

I'm fine with others requiring my children to behave in public as long as they don't have any say in how I discipline my child in private...

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Japher
I'm fine with others requiring my children to behave in public as long as they don't have any say in how I discipline my child in private...

I expect that people who approve of your child's good behaviour in public also approve of your disciplining your child as you see fit.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


And people say kids are irrational. Even kids as young as Sophie (far outside the realm of ages that I'm fighting for really) can clearly show reason in the above examples of testing the boundries. Like a little scientist testing the world around her. Isn't the scientific method one of the most reasonable, logical processes man has yet invented? Identify a question/problem, think up a hypothesis, test that hypothesis, draw a conclusion, etc. Isn't that pretty much what little kids do on a daily basis?

Yet no one sees this misbehavior as a sign of intelligence and reason. Behavior equates intelligence in a way. A good behaved kid is seen as smarter, more rational, and more "adult" than a misbehaved one. Even though that misbehavior may indeed be the most intelligent, rational, and adult thing kids do. So it gets overlooked.

That kids apply their cunning reason to testing authority and not to nuclear physics does not discount their reason. You see this also in school. The many distractions and problems that students do in class instead of paying attention are not a sign of their stupidity or ADD (not always at least), but are a means of resisting something they object to but have no power over. What is particularly striking is that the US Army has a list of things soldiers should do when in a POW camp to retain their sanity and their humanity. Many of them are simple disruptive things that are identical to the kinds of things kids do in school. Both are efforts to assert one's independence, even in a situation of captivity. Showing that while the teacher/prison guard may control where my body must be, they cannot control my mind.

Not that I'm saying all kids should disrupt class and antagonize their parents, I'm not. But it is perfectly rational.

Sophie should be allowed to vote.

[Sava]

I was in the doctor's office yesterday. There was an obnoxious kid running around knocking stuff over, throwing magazines, and screaming. His mom was talking on a cell phone and was not doing a damn thing about it.

Anyone who says that behavior is a sign of intelligence and reason is a ****ing moron.

That behavior is the OPPOSITE of intelligence and reason.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Sava
I was in the doctor's office yesterday. There was an obnoxious kid running around knocking stuff over, throwing magazines, and screaming. His mom was talking on a cell phone and was not doing a damn thing about it.

Anyone who says that behavior is a sign of intelligence and reason is a ****ing moron.

That behavior is the OPPOSITE of intelligence and reason.

Actually, it was the mother who was the ****ing moron.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Actually, it was the mother who was the ****ing moron.

oh exactly... I am blaming the irresponsible parent 100%

it's not the kid's fault...

but this is my point... there are parents out there who are irresponsible and just plain stupid... they let their kids run wild.

and this is wrong

and god forbid us "arrogant" childless folks speak up about it

if I ran around and misbehaved like that in public when I was a kid I would have been in big trouble... my mom would not have tolerated that.

But how come it is wrong to complain about bad parenting if you don't have children?

We complain about the war in Iraq and we are not the President, we are not members of Congress, few of us have military experience, or really any experience in politics.

You don't need experience with certain things to point out a massive failure, complete incompetence, or a problem.

Are there things about parenting that I don't understand because of my lack of experience? Absolutely. Does that mean I can't have an opinion about stupid, incompetent, and irresponsible parents that let their children run around like freaking maniacs in public places? Absolutely NOT!

[Flip McWho]

Sava speaks the truth.

What ya gotta realise JohnT is that Sava ain't talking about parents like you. Parents who make sure they're kids are behaving, parents who are responsible and realise they have a duty towards their kids.

For example, I've got a nephew who used to be a right little ****. He used to cause all sorts of trouble and test boundries just for the sake of breaking them. Now this little kid was a right pain for his mother, but whenever he stayed over with his nana (my mother) he was a different kid entirely. He knew (or learnt quickly) how much his nana would let him get away with, whereas his own mother didn't have anything resembling disclipline.


Ozzy. Rationality doesn't have much to do with being able to vote. Never has. A child may be rational at whatever age they are, but that doesn't automatically give them the right to vote. Being rational has never given anyone the automatic right to vote.

[JohnT]

Yes, but my post wasn't about the parents at all. It was about the kids and why they behave the way they do.

[Flip McWho]

But noone blames the kids. They've all blamed the parents.

[Sava]

Originally posted by JohnT
Yes, but my post wasn't about the parents at all. It was about the kids and why they behave the way they do.

That's all well and good. But your parental experience is limited to your kid(s). (Do you just have Sophie?)

Are you a child psychologist? Are you a behavioral expert? Where did you get your degree?

You have experience being a parent to your kid(s). But there are tons of other kids out there that are different from your own. The doctor that I see for my situation also treats children for ADD and ADHD (severe cases... he is a specialist). I encounter kids that do have severe problems. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

You may think that your parental experience gives you insight into the minds of all children. It doesn't. You understand YOUR child. You shouldn't take your parental experience and apply it to all children.

BTW, how old is Sophie?

[JohnT]

You may think that your parental experience gives you insight into the minds of all children. It doesn't. You understand YOUR child. You shouldn't take your parental experience and apply it to all children.

Sava, you're actually helping my position, which is essentially that the childless need to learn patience because they don't know what's going on. Just like you said, "what if the child has ADD"?

Well... why does that permit Joe Twenty-Something to act all bothered because some poor 6 year-old with mental problems is yelling in the grocery store?

Assigning "blame" on "bad parenting" is the easy way out. Sava, you pointed out a reason other than bad parenting that a child might misbehave. There are others.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

[Flip McWho]

umm theres a difference between naughty kids and kids with mental problems, one is the result of bad parenting and the other is the result of mental problems. Unless you're saying that all kids that misbehave are experiencing mental problems. Of course you can't really tell the two types of kids apart, but bad parenting does exist.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by JohnT
Sava, you pointed out a reason other than bad parenting that a child might misbehave. There are others.

I agree. I've seen a few. They might want candy and decide scream until the parents get it for them, the parents might take a toy away, they might think it's a good idea to start throwing things at their siblings, etc....