Chavez wins big in Venezuela!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by techumseh
Gee Mr. Yankee, please stop overthrowing our elected governments. Please stop training torturers and death squads. Please let us control our own economies, Mr. Yankee. If we ask nicely, can we, please?[/i] God! You people.

Sending oil to Castro shows your concern for elextred govts?

By, the way, when was the last time an elected govt in Latin America was overthrown with the help of the US? (actually overthrown, attempts dont count)

Ditto for training torturers and death squads. Youre going to have to go back to the 1980s to get even controversial examples.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Just because I'm an American doesn't mean you can dismiss my arguments by referring to my nationality derogatively, nor does it give you the right to do so at all.

To ultra-nationalists like Tecumseh, Americans are not people, they are just ... Americans, and are always wrong. These types of people are bigots, generally, and xenophobic specifically. Its not worth arguing against someone with tunnel vision anyways.

Even look at the name he chose, "Tecumseh". Gee, I wonder why he likes Tecumseh so much.

[Dinner]

Chavez is not a new dealer. He's big time into crony capitalism and has replaced most of the trained technicrates at state owned companies (like the national oil company) with loyal people who have no experience or training in the jobs they're supposed to be performing. This has resulted in a big increase in costs and falling output. Worse is Chavez is very selective about his nationalization program so that his friends don't get hit but his opponents have their businesses taken from them with little compensation.

That's political abuse and it is harming the country. As long as oil prices are high he can hide the economic damage but if oil prices fall...

[techumseh]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Sending oil to Castro shows your concern for elextred govts?

By, the way, when was the last time an elected govt in Latin America was overthrown with the help of the US? (actually overthrown, attempts dont count)

Ditto for training torturers and death squads. Youre going to have to go back to the 1980s to get even controversial examples.

Are you trying to equate sending oil to Cuba with overthrowing governments?

A recent example? How about the overthrow of Aristide in Haiti? The former Duvalier soldiers and police are back in control, thanks to Uncle Sam.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I didn't realize there were so many chavez supporters here. I'm neither for or against him and don't really care if he helps the people there or not, I'm just curious how far you all will take your support of him. This will be interesting to watch cause my guess is he will continue to stretch legitmacy and it will be entertaining indeed to watch how they are explained here

Well. For the record. I don't support Chavez. I think he is a joke. He is just a hilarious leader and I like him because he does funny stuff.

But it's obvious he is a popular leader. The Venezuelan people obviously support him.

He is not a dictator.

I take exception when people lie and make up bull**** just because they don't like his politics. Which is what some people are doing.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by techumseh

A recent example? How about the overthrow of Aristide in Haiti? The former Duvalier soldiers and police are back in control, thanks to Uncle Sam.

You ignorant pounce!

[Agathon]

If LOTM and all the other crypto-fascists are against him, chances are that Chavez is in fact Jesus returned.

[Ecthy]

In my English class there's a girl from Venezuela. I talked to her and her parents are afraid of losing their possessions due to Chavez. Since she's cute, I hate him now.

Chavez

Rich land owners

People having to be afraid of losing their property

M. Bison

[Agathon]

She shouldn't be afraid. IIRC Chavez supports private property rights (Damn him!). His land giveaway was comprised of public land, and the state oil company is state property.

What we have here is a ruling class, mainly based on race, that is no longer getting its own way. He doesn't have nice things to say about them, but he is postively mild compared to the press he gets from the private media (which is all owned by his opponents). That makes their protestations of unfairness ridiculous. Any party would love to have the media access they have.

They call him the "******" on air for God's sake. Can you imagine what would happen in the US if CNN started treating Bush like that? Yet the opposition media continues to broadcast...

Most poor people in Latin America have been marginalized by governments that have been controlled by a small proportion of the population. This has been going on for years. Well, it looks like they are sick of it (given the recent events in Bolivia).

You can moan on about how his economic reforms won't work, but it makes no difference. His opponents just want to go back to the old ways where the wealthy ****ed over the rest of the population.

The old guard simply cannot beat him at the ballot box. They've tried God knows how many times now, and have been hammered every time in elections. They even tried to remove him in a coup - that didn't work either.

Yet the US and other "interested parties" keep portraying him as a dictatorial lunatic. How many other dictatorial lunatics are so punctilious about having elections? He moaned about the last one (because it was a waste of time and everyone knew it), but he followed the rules when they didn't suit him (rules he himself had written).

And the idiotic American media do nothing to counter this falsification... as usual. So much for a free press.

[Barnabas]

Chavez is a Peron, not a Castro, Not a Pinochet, and definitely not a potential Saddam, do you think he will invade guyana and mass murder people???

he is not a dictator, period

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Ecthy
In my English class there's a girl from Venezuela. I talked to her and her parents are afraid of losing their possessions due to Chavez. Since she's cute, I hate him now.

You have your priorities in order.

Hispanic girls >> politics

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Oerdin


You ignorant pounce!

Is that supposed to pass for an argument?

[Dinner]

No, a statement of fact.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by techumseh

A recent example? How about the overthrow of Aristide in Haiti? The former Duvalier soldiers and police are back in control, thanks to Uncle Sam.

You mean the one that Canada and France participated with the US on? The one Oked by the UN Security Council?

[Joseph]

Look at this way. About this time next year, we are going to have some spare Troops around with nothing to do. Just maybe they can go on a cruise south of here on the east side of Mexico.