Guess the tanks.

[Mao]

Waitaminute...haha. I go to sinodefence.com and there's the exact same pic and it says it's a Type 90-II. I go to fas.org and it says it's an MBT-2000. heh.

Oh, and China does use ME T-72s as a basis for the Type 90-II, but I don't know if one could term it the "Chinese version" of the T-72, could they? It's supposed to be a more advanced version, a half a generation ahead or so, utilizing various aspects of some T-72s. I am confused, however, that some term it as an outgrowth of the Type 85 design, which was in turn based on the T-54 from waaay back.

[Serb]

No way it's better than the original T-72.
So, what about my pic?
hit: it's Russian, it's new and it's deadly.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Serb
No way it's better than the original T-72.
So, what about my pic?
hit: it's Russian, it's new and it's deadly.

only until it runs up again an M1A2

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Serb
How about this one? I bet you'll never guess it.

Welcome to the 21st century, folks.

T-90S

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Joseph
T-90S

or the Black Eagle Main Battle Tank.

[Mao]

Originally posted by Serb
No way it's better than the original T-72.
So, what about my pic?
hit: it's Russian, it's new and it's deadly.

riiight...no way it's better than the original T-72, of course Except it has better fire control, better systems, etc. etc. it's not even in the same generation.

[Serb]

Don't make me laugh. Type-90-II. It's their first attempt to make a third generation tank.
And it is worse than the original T-72 - the Russian classic tank. The Chinese version is probably better than an Iraqi-made crap, but no way in hell it has the same capability as the origanal Russian versions of T-72. They are still a decade behind us in tank design.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Joseph
only until it runs up again an M1A2

It's way more superior than your mastadon.

And you guess it right. It's a Black Eagle again. This picture is unique, 'cause the thank is still classified.

[Mao]

Originally posted by Serb
Don't make me laugh. Type-90-II. It's their first attempt to make a third generation tank.
And it is worse than the original T-72 - the Russian classic tank. The Chinese version is probably better than an Iraqi-made crap, but no way in hell it has the same capability as the origanal Russian versions of T-72. They are still a decade behind us in tank design.

Yep, Russia is superior in all ways, completely and totally. In every way imaginable. Did you also know that Russian tanks double as fighters capable to taking out F-22s? Tell me Serb, have you ever heard of a poster named Ekaterinslav? I think you two would get along

I could design a tank better than the T-72, easily. I could just mash up some Western armor parts that are very easy to get, and it'd be superior. Just as China or any other nation can do.

[Tattila the Hun]

Cheap and easy to operate/maintain by a conscript army were few of the key points of t-72...

[GePap]

I don't get why Serb praises the T-72 when the T-64 to T-80 line were probably better vehicles.

Certainly the export version of the T-72 was not that great a vehicle. The Type 90-II is probably a better vehicle and Serb is exagerating.

[Mao]

Really? I was always under the impression that the T-72 was just the "torn-down" version of the T-64. The T-72 was for export whereas the T-64 was better, and actually used by the Red Army, right?

Although, the entire reason for this might be a differentiation on our definition of "better." I agree with Tattila, and if that's the definition, the T-72 might be better than the M1A2.

[GePap]

The T-72 was not a new version of the T-64 AFAIK, but a new design. The T-80 was an improved T-64, while the T-90 is a redesign on the T-72. The T-64 was more mechanically complex than the T-72, and no versions were ever exported.

The soviets had a version of the T-72 of their own, better than the common export version, so a T-72 in Red Army hands would have been more dangerous than in the hands of some third world army.

As for the "conscript army" comment, lets not forget that for most of the Cold War all armies were concripts. Its European conscripts that run Leopard 2's, for example, and no one would classify that tank as cheap....

The Soviet obviously went for a different tank doctrine than the West, which relied more on mass and speed of manuever, a refinement on the tactics that won them WW2.

BUt again, I would certainly classify the newer Chinese models to be superior to the T-72, unless we are talking about one updated and modernized to keep pace.

[Mao]

Originally posted by Serb
Don't make me laugh. Type-90-II. It's their first attempt to make a third generation tank.
And it is worse than the original T-72 - the Russian classic tank. The Chinese version is probably better than an Iraqi-made crap, but no way in hell it has the same capability as the origanal Russian versions of T-72. They are still a decade behind us in tank design.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be what Serb is talking about.

Oh, and GePap, I do believe you're right about the T-72 and T-64. I don't know why I always had that impression about them, but FAS backs you up.

So...who's actually next?

[GePap]

Whoever guessed the Black Eagle, but since they are not moving, here I go jumping the line!