Ireland

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Pekka
But I don't know how big support united Ireland even has between the Irish. Unionists are not big fans of Irish Republic involvement in NI, Nationalists, well I think it's easy to guess what they want, UK position is keeping bastard view, and the Irish Republic are technical folks but however remain in position where unification should first have x amount of support in NI, support that apparently isn't there today in numbers that they would also support it. Then again they might be like the global SDP and play all bases just to be sure.

It's complicated. What little I have learnt in the months I've been here is basically that the Irish government think a united Ireland is a good idea - but they don't want to do it until they are sure there won't be problems in the North as a result.

The British government quietly want rid of the whole problem - the strategic reason they kept the North to start with, naval bases and the shipyard in Belfast, are irrelevant now. They just need an excuse, which means the population in the North choosing to leave the UK.

The local politics is the difficulty. Britain wants the politicians in the North to work together, something they find very difficult - especially as everybody distrusts everybody else. If they ever get a devolved government running at Stormont without it collapsing after 5 minutes there might be some progress but no-one is holding their breath on that.

Quietly there is some economic integration. An agreement has just been signed to have cross border electricity supply.

It is going to take decades before there is a united Ireland. I think it will come as being part of the UK gets less attractive to people in the North, but it's going to take a long time.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Pekka
The partitioning of the land was BS,

You write that as if Ireland was some sort of united, sovereign state for centuries. It wasn't.

If you want to revert back to the traditional arrangement, let's split it up into a number of squabbling kingdoms, and give Dublin back to the Vikings.

[duke o' york]

No! They'd raise beer taxes until it was nigh unaffordable, and moronic stag parties would then just have to stay at home in Britain.

[Pekka]

Laz, of course it wasn't united for centuries.. Protestants pretty much made sure the lands were used by them ...

But yeah, I'm not an expert on this issue at all, and I'm not here to argue, mostly just trying to learn more about the situation.

[Gibsie]

United Ireland? What, you mean, invade and unite them as part of our Kingdom?

[Starchild]

I still say rent the entire province to the Chinese for a century or two and then they'll see that as brutal occupying forces go, we're one of the nicer ones.

[Pekka]

and we're nice than you are. Give us Ireland.

[Sir Og]

I new this whole thread was part of Finland's world domination plan right from the start.

[Saras]

Originally posted by duke o' york
No! They'd raise beer taxes until it was nigh unaffordable, and moronic stag parties would then just have to stay at home in Britain.

You're so behind times, they're all in Riga, Tallinn and Vilnius these days

[Asher]

Northern Ireland should join Canada.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


You write that as if Ireland was some sort of united, sovereign state for centuries. It wasn't.

If you want to revert back to the traditional arrangement, let's split it up into a number of squabbling kingdoms, and give Dublin back to the Vikings.

I don't think the Norwegians want it.

[our_man]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


You write that as if Ireland was some sort of united, sovereign state for centuries. It wasn't.

If you want to revert back to the traditional arrangement, let's split it up into a number of squabbling kingdoms, and give Dublin back to the Vikings.

That's because we were invaded before we could establish a centralized kingdom. Look at what Ard Rí Boru acheived before he was killed at the Battle of Clontarf. An Irish army from tribes across the country gathered together to drive the Vikings out. Considering the chaotic nature of England (under Alfred I think) at the same time, Ireland wasn't too far behind in terms of governance.

The other example that you neglect to mention is Confederate Ireland. A relatively strong centralized government was established in Kilkenny that controlled most of the country. The only places that weren't under Confederate control were those Protestant enclaves that had already been planted by the British. You see, even by the 17th century the damage had been done.

Granted, they were loyal to Charles I, but they operated under the principle that Ireland would have complete self-government after the war.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The other example that you neglect to mention is Confederate Ireland.

OMG! Robert E. Lee got to Ireland!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by our_man

Look at what Ard Rí Boru acheived before he was killed at the Battle of Clontarf. An Irish army from tribes across the country gathered together to drive the Vikings out.

Uh, Brian also had help from Vikings too- from Hlymrekur - Limerick and Vedra Fjord - Waterford.

Considering the chaotic nature of England (under Alfred I think) at the same time

Battle of Clontarf- 1014 a.d. . A few years after this date, King Cnut married the widow of King Aethelred and became king of a united England, as well as of Denmark, Norway and southern Sweden.

[our_man]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The other example that you neglect to mention is Confederate Ireland.

OMG! Robert E. Lee got to Ireland!

Yup. It's a little known fact but after his defeat in the ACW he travelled back in time to 17th century Ireland, where he hoped he could acheive Irish independence and thus save the Confederacy. Irish independence => no potato famine => no Irish immigrants contributing to Union forces => Confederate victory.

Thank God the British foiled his dastradly scheme.