Rugby - Hands Off Black!

[Havak]

He nearly got red carded in the Jonno-Lomu challenge at twickers last summer so I doubt he has learnt all that much.

And for Worsley? Who has only ever been marginal at best

Worzel is like Chris Jones - a fine club player who has never been able to handle the step up to international level. Some journos gave Jones excellent reviews last weekend - god knows what they were watching as he showed all his old frailties for me.

However Worzel has studied well under Dayglo at Wasps and launched a public PR rant about being dropped for last weekend when he was clearly the only choice. Turnip being gullible instantly selects him (he is the best option, he must be as he says so himself do you see).

Lund certainly has a future - I hope in fact that we can tempt him away from Sale to Rugby Mecca at Welford Road (at the end of the day if Kennedy ever gets bored Sale will go instantly bankrupt - at least Tigers are solvent on their own merits).

In fact I quite liked the back row combination last weekend and would have liked it to be given more time - albeit with Lund and Moody swapping shirts.

Has Robinson really said that about Catt? So he will play a 36 year old IC who (on the evidence of last weekend) refuses to tackle and no longer has the pace to make breaks? Then again that sounds like a Robinson choice to me!

[Havak]

Oh dear - I have just seen that Steve Walsh is the ref for Saturday. Lets hope he doesn't get himself suspended for misconduct again eh? I'm rather surprised the IRB let him near an England fixture given what he has been found guilty of by the IRB in the past. Still it gives us an easy excuse when we lose.

Also when one looks hard enough it is always easy to find someone in the Wallaby camp who has won with just as bad grace as if they had actually lost:

Wallabies defence coach John Muggleton accused England of elbowing and tripping the flanker in order to stop him reaching the breakdown.

He was talking about Smith here - and it is total b***s***. Nice to see the Aussies coaching line up has it's share of doofus types too. Perhaps he studied under turnip at some point?

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by Havak

Steve Walsh

As for the comment that Chirs Jones couldn't handle club to international, what is there to step up to? Sale could own England

[finbar]

Just about everyone else could, too. Namibia would be licking their chops.

Has Robinson really said that about Catt? So he will play a 36 year old IC who (on the evidence of last weekend) refuses to tackle and no longer has the pace to make breaks? Then again that sounds like a Robinson choice to me!

He did say it. Can't find it now. It was on either the BBC site or the SMH site.

[LDiCesare]

Mmmm... Let me see. 7 players from Leicester plus one on the bench for England. Havak, can you remind me which position the Tigers ended this year in England's championship? Is it me or is it a bit weird that a team who's underperforming be providing most of the players to the national team?

(LDiCesare ducks and runs away out of Havak's reach).

[finbar]

You can run from him, LdiC, but you cannot hide.

But to answer your question. One of the Leicester chaps - Mr Chuter - was, IMHO, probably England's best. Made the Wallaby first choice hooker, Mr Freier, look as ordinary as he is. Another one - Mr Kay - tried very very hard. Another one - Mr Goode - is probably a champ club player, but isn't, IMHO, and I've seen him a few times now at Test level, up to Test class. Perhaps he was just unlucky running into S. Larkham showing some of his magic of yesteryear. Mr Varndell was, yet again, found wanting at Test class, but, in his defence, the service he received was utter utter crap. Mr Rowntree is, these days, I think, looking for a comfy chair to rest his weary body, with his prop mate not far behind him.

Actually, the thing I most enjoyed about the match was watching Lote Tuquiri clinically, professionally and methodically punishing Varndell for making a fool of him last week. It was fascinating to watch. The pity for Varndell was that his mates inside him did absolutely nothing to help his cause with their aimless, inept passing.

Oh, and I recall that, last week, along with wanting M. Catt in his team at the World Cup, Turnip also cited I. Balshaw as the best full back in England. Would Turnip now like to eat those words as well?

Anyway, the Wallabies improved on last week's effort, even if they went backwards in the lineout department thanks to A. Freier's imcompetence, while England went nowhere, even with a massive possession advantage. The Wallaby defence was rarely seriously threatened, while England managed, somehow, to run the Wallaby backs into form. I'm not sure who organises England's defence, but the four missed tackles in the lead up to Tuquiri's try were simply mindboggling.

Oh, and Havak, can you tell me why Turnip yanked the young centre, who needs all the game time and experience he can get, leaving Catt on the ground?

Or are you beyond caring?

[LDiCesare]

I read this in L'Equipe online. It's a quote from Robinson:

L'Angleterre est absolument capable de défendre son titre mondial. Nous avons un an devant nous pour assembler toutes les pièces avec un nouveau système de jeu»,

This, surprisedly, translates as "England is absolutely able to defend its world title. We have one year ahead of us to assemble all the pieces with a new play system." Is it I who translates badly, the journalist who translated badly, or Turnip being silly?
England, Scotland and Ireland all lost their matches against Southern nations. Only France won its test, but then this was against Romania. I wonder what next week match against South Africa will look like. Since out test has not been shown on TV (why, they could show tons of football matches instead ) I don't know if the players managed to find some automatisms. The match against the Boks will be hard since we'll have a fly half and a scrum half who will have either never have played together or had only one match together (Yachvili and Castaignede under all likelihood).

[finbar]

This, surprisedly, translates as "England is absolutely able to defend its world title. We have one year ahead of us to assemble all the pieces with a new play system." Is it I who translates badly, the journalist who translated badly, or Turnip being silly?

I think you're being wildly over-generous with the adjective "silly".

I also notice that Knuckles is saying Ireland, next week, will be a stiffer challenge than England. He's probably right.

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by finbar


I think you're being wildly over-generous with the adjective "silly".

I also notice that Knuckles is saying Ireland, next week, will be a stiffer challenge than England. He's probably right.

Ireland have taken their first team, England didn't and sucked and sucked really hard.

Scotland were ROBBED! 12 point turn-around due to a bad reffing decision...I was yelling and throwing my slipper at the wall

[finbar]

How much better might a first-choice team have done, does anyone think?

[Havak]

Sale could own England

Thanks, this has cheered me up no end.

It might be ungracious of me to point out that were Sale to face England it would be a largely France v England fixture anyway.

Are Sale on the verge of greatness? Perhaps. Lets see how the title defence goes. I recall Munster made them look very ordinary in the pool stages this year.

Chris Jones actually had a fairly decent game by his standards. Nice to see he has bulked up somewhat – I still have visions of the skinny kid bullied out of the side by Robinson and Jack on the 2004 tour.

He did say it. Can't find it now

I’m perfectly happy to take your word on it. Have you seen what he said after Saturday? You will find it hard to believe – he dredged up the old “we have to be clinical and learn to finish sides off” quote. Yes – he seriously took that line again. This is now beyond embarrassing and rapidly moving beyond a joke. The guy is a grade A chump!

Myself I spent most of Saturday wondering what might have happened if the Wallabies had a better quality tight five!

Regardless for once the Sky team hit the note for me – Barnes said he thinks England have stepped back 7-8 years, forwards winning huge possession and backs not using it at all (8 man rugby).

I am writing the SOS telegram to Jonno today.

Varndell had a torrid time – Tuquiri must have enjoyed his day. But then he was being consistently fed long flat passes where he was getting man and ball together – totally negating his strengths! But the experience should make him a better and stronger player in the long run. We saw at the end what happens when the oppo is already cracking the bubbly in their heads – if you take your eyes of him he will run around you.

And in case someone is tempted to say “Cueto won have done better” I am afraid he would have been eaten alive too with the same ball.

(LDiCesare ducks and runs away out of Havak's reach).

Tigers finished second – which by our standards is underperforming fair enough.

The Manx (Sale) won it (and deservedly so) – and they supplied Jones and Lund to the tour (Titterall was also down there but not used) with all their other players being rested.

Then again if we are talking of underperforming teams supplying players surely that describes the whole Wallaby squad? Which Aussie franchise finished highest in the S14?

Turnip also cited I. Balshaw as the best full back in England. Would Turnip now like to eat those words as well?

Latham is in a different class frankly. Okay the man has no personal integrity singing contracts willy nilly and then reneging on them – but he is a great player.

Chuter did enough to oust Lardy – but he won’t. Robinson has no imagination I suspect. Kay played well – I have to confess I thought Jones did to. Lipman and Worzel were no great shakes and Sanderson tries hard but he lacks the power game I like to see in an 8 shirt.

And Goode? I’m a Tigers man and his boot pays us great dividends but even I don’t think he belongs in an England shirt!

Or are you beyond caring?

Almost beyond caring to be honest. I simply cannot work out turnips thoughts on using a bench – I was almost happier when he simply refused to use it!!

Do you mean when he took Noon off? Or Tait? Noon had a mare to be honest – at his one dimensional worst in this game. Tait on the wing? Pointless. Abbott looked brighter than Noon when he came on – but Barkeley had a nightmare when he did (to the extent he may have played himself out of contention).

Anyway five defeats in a row – with NZ, RSA, RSA and Argentina next up. And turnip won’t even resign after nine defeats I predict. I think he buys into his own PR!

or Turnip being silly?

Well this option gets my vote LDiCesare. I went so far as to tell my rugger friends watching with me that I won’t suffer through any more England games until Robinson goes. And I meant it as well.

I also notice that Knuckles is saying Ireland, next week, will be a stiffer challenge than England. He's probably right.

As well as having their first choice squad Ireland also played really well. In fact I would say, and this is not to wind up the kiwis, that the two standout players on the field were Paul O’Connell and O’Driscoll. It must have hurt the Kiwis when POC ran straight through them to score a try – they tackled him as well as England might have.

It will be interesting against Oz – that Irish pack could win almost as much ball as England did – but the Irish backline will be capable of using it a lot better.

How much better might a first-choice team have done, does anyone think?

At the end of the one of the longest domestic seasons we have ever had? Not much better I suspect.

Okay now I needs must push some Kiwi buttons. On about 55 minutes Brian O’Driscoll receives a swinging forearm across the throat that clearly causes him a lot of trouble – he goes down and needs treatment. There is a “knowledgeable and fair” element in the kiwi crowd that then boo’s – and keeps booing until he is back on his feet.

Okay clearly there is a lingering resentment about Tanagate (amusing really as however you view that incident BOD was an innocent victim of it!) but this booing was disgraceful – I wouldn’t tolerate it near me at Welford Road or Twickers – so I wonder how the Kiwi lads feel that there is an element in their crowd that would behave so disgracefully?

If you have been following the U21 cup by the way the England skipper, Jordan Crane, is a new Tigers signing.

[finbar]

Was it Noon he took off? I thought it was Tait. I don't know either well enough and, numbers on their back aside, couldn't distinguish between them. All I know is that the English midfield always looked vulnerable either against Mortlock's sheer power or Larkham's guile. The - in a way - depressing thing about the whole exercise was the underlining of the importance of Larkham to the team. He missed a lot of the disasters of last season through injury. There might not have been as many with him onboard. And he can't last forever.

On the other hand, I think the backline will be greatly improved when Giteau returns to #12. Matt Rogers isn't a 12.

I don't think anything that happened on Saturday was a genuine test of Varndell's abilities. Dreadful service set him up to be monstered time after time. Tuquiri just sweated on him.

I don't know. I can see what Knuckles is trying to do with the Wallabies. It's pretty obvious. I just can't see what's going on in the England camp. But then, unfortunately for you, what's new?

[Havak]

Amen to that Finbar

Where would you play Rogers? Latham has the 15 shirt sewn up I think?

Knuckles is trying to bring a backbone to the tight five – and broaden the number of players with experience there?

As both Abbott and Barkeley came on, but Goodey stayed on then field, he must have taken both Noon and Tait off (unless he pulled Balshaw for Barkeley?). I confess by this stage I was so angry that I was thoroughly distracted from the actual rugger.

Okay here is the transcript of an interview with Robinson aired on BBC Radio 5 Live this morning:

"I'm very confident that we can put out a team capable of winning the World Cup. We'd have to work very hard to achieve that but with the right plans in place we can win it.

Remember last autumn we destroyed Australia and narrowly lost to New Zealand, so we can get this right.
Test rugby is a step up in class and the young players have done pretty well. Peter Richards had a couple of starts and we're pleased with him. Mathew Tait did well, as did Tom Varndell.

And again we have shown the depth we have up front - players like Ben Kay, Chris Jones and George Chuter did very well.

We're developing outstanding international forwards and we just have to look at developing world class players in our backs.

Our execution is a key area for us to really look at - passing, running angles, hard lines, being able to offload and support - because if you look at the possession, we dominated again. We have very good forwards, but we are looking to develop some quality in our backline.

There are players here (in Australia), who put with the players back home, I think there is a side that will be able to take on the world's best."


Okay for me one of the fundamental keys to solving problems is to recognise that there is one – something that Turnip serially fails to do. I would say more but my BP is spiking dangerously as I think of ways to describe our coach.

A change of coach would not be an instant cure (such is the damage he has wrought) but it is a prerequisite to curing the cancer now affecting English rugby

I’ll leave the final word to a poster on the BBC rugger boards who summed this up quite nicely:

“The only chance England have of winning the world cup is if Robinson quits now”

[finbar]

With Giteau's return, Rogers, I suspect, will become super sub extraordinaire, covering just about everywhere from full back to fly half.

Speaking of Chris Latham, I found this great line in the Planet Rugby report on the match:

He looked like an over-enthusiastic dad taking on his young son's touch-rugby team.

Turnip's blind optimism verges on the ludicrous. Destroyed Australia? Well, beat them at their lowest ebb in 20 or 30 years. And now Australia - by his own definition - have come back and more than destroyed England.

Outstanding international forwards? Ben Kay, unfortunately, has been found wanting for several years. Chris Jones and Mr Chuter? Outstanding international forwards? England's last outstanding international forwards were Messers J**** and B***.

Tait and Varndell did well? What matches was he watching?

Basically, he's saying what he has to say, regardless of how closely related to reality it is. He can't tell the truth, even if he recognises it. Publicly anyway. To do so would be to admit his failure, My bet is that someone will tap him on the shoulder fairly soon and he will develop, um, family commitments that need attending to.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Okay now I needs must push some Kiwi buttons. On about 55 minutes Brian O’Driscoll receives a swinging forearm across the throat that clearly causes him a lot of trouble – he goes down and needs treatment. There is a “knowledgeable and fair” element in the kiwi crowd that then boo’s – and keeps booing until he is back on his feet.

I remember the commentator saying something about O'Driscoll deserving an Oscar for that one. Who knows what the people in the crowd were doing, I don't remember a lot of booing. What can I say, not everyone will behave in a sportsmanlike manner at a large sporting event. We should be thankful we don't get nearly as many neanderthals as they do in that other sport in which they kick a round ball about.