Rugby - Hands Off Black!

[Caligastia]

Are Ireland ok at the moment? I'm looking forward to their match against NZ.

[finbar]

Nuh. They're underachieving. Yet again.

I notice England are madly talking up the Wallaby pack. At this point in time, it seems the Wallaby front row - Blake, Freir and Holmes - will have a grand total of 10 tests between them, most of them off the bench.

[Caligastia]

How strange that the English would talk up the opposition before a match...we've never seen Havak do such a thing.

[Havak]

It's a scratch England side led by the worst coach in living memory - of course they will be trying to talk up the Wallabies. However poor the Aussies are they will probably win. Pre-emptive Robinson excuse time.

I would suggest it is a bit blinkered to suggest this is an English fault however - I suggest you search for Knuckles comments on the series from last month for example - or any of many Graham Henry comments before a test as well. It is a truly global disease make no mistake.

Oh and Finbar - give me Freir over Mears any day - if Robinson selects Mears (and both are Bath men so he probably will) your hooker at least will over match ours (and have more caps!). The likely props are hugely experienced - but neither impressed in the play off final and neither are very mobile these days (Rowntree and White).

[Havak]

The Turnip masterplan to dominate world rugby continues apace - The A side lost to Scotland A in the opening rubber of the Churchill cup and may now go out before the final phases of the tournament (and they are defending champions).

Turnip was heard to say it was really a 'great victory' and showed a 'bright future for English rugby'. The English Rugby public were heard to reply "sod off you useless t*****".

I've reached the stage where I would frankly welcome even obnoxious old Jack Rowell back with open arms if only it meant Robinson goes toute suite.

(In fairness to turnip, if such is needed, he is actually down in Oz prepping for next weeks test defeat so is to blame only in that he had a say in the squad).

[finbar]

Well, it's hard to know exactly what sort of team Turnip will be coaching against. The latest gossip, according to the SMH site, has it that even Adam Freir will miss out on the hooking job, the role going to the chap who, I think, is an ex-Queenslander, now with the Perth mob. I'm not even sure of his name! Anyway, it also seems that young Daniel Heenan will be starting as one of two very large and mobile flankers with G. Smith at #8. Apart from giving four bona fide jumping options at line out time, that's the same D. Heenan who started life as a lock for Queensland, and considered J. Eales' protege.

[Havak]

I do recall you mentioning Heenan a long time ago - he dropped totally off the radar, was that injury or simply that as a lock he missed the boat?

They will be two very different looking teams:

England team to play Australia at Telstra Stadium, Sydney on Sunday: I Balshaw (Gloucester); T Varndell (Leicester), M Tait (Newcastle), M Catt (London Irish), T Voyce (Wasps); O Barkley (Bath), P Richards (Gloucester); G Rowntree (Leicester), L Mears (Bath), J White (Leicester), L Deacon (Leicester), A Brown (Gloucester), M Lund (Sale Sharks), L Moody (Leicester), P Sanderson (Worcester, capt).
Replacements: G Chuter (Leicester), T Payne (Wasps), C Jones (Sale Sharks), J Worsley (Wasps), N Walshe (Bath), A Goode (Leicester), J Noon (Newcastle)

I'm not expecting huge things from this side but I quite like the composition of 4-8. Okay turnip has picked Mears at hooker as I predicted but Chutes is on the bench to rescue that situation when needed (and it will be needed - Mears sucks big time).

The second row is finally my long time touted pick of Brown and Deacon - I have high hopes that they can make the spots their own.

The back row forwards are a very different bunch too - there is power and pace there. No big old unit like Cozza or Dayglo (or Heenan) but Lund is a conventional openside who also has pace (plays sevens for us) meaning Moody can revert to blindside where I prefer him. Sanderson will play at 8 which is also interesting.

The backs are perhaps not so exciting a prospect although the resurrection of Mathew Tait outside Catty is well worth watching - he seems a more accomplished and certainly more muscular player than when he was thrown to the welsh wolves at 18.

And of course Tom Varndell starts on the wing. There is just huge potential in this lad - he is already one of the most electrifying attacking wings I have ever seen (and not just in an England shirt). His defence is suspect however, although it is improving, and one can guarantee the Aussies will have sussed this. I will be most intrigued to see how Tom goes in this one - it is his first test against premier international opposition

[finbar]

Young Master Heenan - now with the Brumbies, BTW - has only played about half a season out of the last two. Shoulder reconstruction, ankle surgery, you name it. His move to flanker was, as I recall, part of a push by Eddie to find big, mobile flankers. More than a couple of locks were being tried on the sides of the pack. Master Heenan seems to have been the most successful.

The England side looks remarkably unexceptional to me. OTOH, I don't know the locks, but it's nice to see some fresh blood. Stirling Mortlock has been back to his storming best, apparently, so Messers Catt and Tait will need to keep their eyes peeled. And exactly why Catt is there in the first place ....

I've read about Varndell's defensive problems. And heard them referred to in one of the Leicester broadcasts I listened to.

Is the match going to be on Sky? I might have to make a special trip out to the olive farm.

[Havak]

Catt? Perhaps because turnip is not very bright and it was a short name he could remember?

Actually Catty has had a strong season - but it is still a bizarre backwards looking choice I suppose.

One thing is for sure it is not a defensive side - they will try an expansive game and god help then if (when?) that goes wrong.

The game is indeed on Sky Sports - mid day kick off Italian time (on Sunday).

[finbar]

I saw Catt in the Irish SF match. Struggled against strong oppo. Well, on the day. The same oppo forgot to turn up the next week, didn't they.

I think it will be the same old story. Wallabies superior - on paper - in the backs. It will be a matter of whether they get the ball.

[ravagon]

Irish coach seems to rate their chances of knocking off the All-Blacks this time around?
While I can't say that I saw any of their recent 6N games I did get the impression that it was more a case of England in rather ordinary form and the French in one of their erratic moods that gifted the Irish the trophy.
Henry is supposed to be sticking with his established policy of rotating players in and out which may be giving rise to some of the Irish expectations. Others seem to come from their available player lineup which seems to be relatively injury-free.

If it were in Dublin then I could see how they might come in with high hopes but I think they may be biting off more than they can chew ...


Oh and I'll be out for a month, starting tomorrow, ... rugby-related of course ...

[Havak]

That 6N is a pesky thing to understand sometimes. The only thing Ireland won was the 'Triple Crown'. France won the actual tournament.

Englands state of disarray has certainly had an effect on the quality of the last three tournaments however.

O'Sullivan is talking up his sides chances - but then surely we should expect him to ahead of the test? He is hardly going to say "we will be stuffed" even if he thinks that. It is just the way coaches operate - I wonder if Henry has, for example, been saying nice things about Ireland this week whilst still maintaining his boys are ready to do a job? It is part of the rugby dance.

Then again the Irish side contains a lot of lads who are champions of Europe - the best NZ can muster is a few boys who won some much smaller round robin tournament called S14.

Naaa - only kidding. I expect NZ to win by a country mile. But to lose at HQ in November of course.

So Finbar - a front row of McIsaac, Blake and Holmes? I think it could work for you as there will be lots of youth and energy there. Our props have shed loads of set piece skill but Rowntree is 35 and White 33. Plus the rotten apple in the middle of them handicaps us hugely. Gawd help us if the Wallabies win the forwards battle!

[finbar]

It can't be too often that a Test front row has one starting cap to boast as its combined experience. Though, according to the SMH site, the Wallabies once started a front row against the ABs with nil caps of any sort between them. It seems Knuckles intends to start a very differerent pack in the second Test.

I think I'll be watching the match out at the farm. I'll be fascinated to see the battle of the forwards.

[Havak]

I'm sure I read that Gregan has more caps than the entire England back line put together as well.

The forwards clash will be interesting - as I have said I am not sure about the coal face but 4-8 I quite like our pack. I'd also dearly love to see Varndell cut loose as well but it is a huge ask for him - getting your first test start in Oz is a real baptism of fire.

[Caligastia]

Coal face? Are you in need of some sensitivity re-education Havak?