Rugby - Hands Off Black!

[ravagon]

Mmmm. Still, they were in with a shot this time. Ahead till the last 5 when the Stormers finally pushed through ...

You could end up all alone talking to yourself one day finbar ... Oh, that's right, you're a Warratahs supporter. I guess that means nobody will be posting.

[Havak]

You know I don't hide Finbar. Even after the summer 2004 games I was here taking it on the chin.

It was as inept a performance as I have ever seen from Tigers - and I have been following them a long time. It is basic rugby to work a two man advantage and yet I watched Professional players take the wrong option again and again. Howard is kidding himself if he thinks it was just final execution that let them down - basic awareness was lacking too.

I think i would like to see the uncontested scrum law reviewed though. Surely it was conceived as protecting a team who had suffered front row injuries? In this game it protected a team who had had two front rowers sent off for cheating! That cannot be right - the cheating side surely has to be disadvantaged in some way?

Sadly Mr Jutge had an all round poor game in any case.

The Toulouse game shocked me - and Michalak was a train wreck - the forward pass into the welcoming arms of a Leinster player for the game breaking try was a real double take 'did he really just do that' moment.

Biarritz will eat Bath alive, I fancy Leinster to edge Munster tidily and i think the trophy may be heading to Dublin this year...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
You know I don't hide Finbar. Even after the summer 2004 games I was here taking it on the chin.

Mmmmm. Remember Joe Bugner?

It was as inept a performance as I have ever seen from Tigers - and I have been following them a long time. It is basic rugby to work a two man advantage and yet I watched Professional players take the wrong option again and again. Howard is kidding himself if he thinks it was just final execution that let them down - basic awareness was lacking too.

This gets back to what I was talking about a couple of weeks ago. I've seen Tigers put in a couple of absolute stinkers this season. Not just ordinary, but seriously terribly bad (relative to what they've been capable of doing). At one point you thought it could be the absence of Gibson, but the rubbish I saw was symptomatic of something more serious. The performances I saw were minus the England players. You had the full team this time? Obviously confidence - or loss thereof - can enter the equation, but I wonder what the fundamental problem is? You didn't think it was P. Howard. Do you still think that?

I think i would like to see the uncontested scrum law reviewed though. Surely it was conceived as protecting a team who had suffered front row injuries? In this game it protected a team who had had two front rowers sent off for cheating! That cannot be right - the cheating side surely has to be disadvantaged in some way?

It's a loophole. You're right, the penalised team shouldn't gain an advantage. On the other hand, how do you legislate it? You can't allow contested scrums involving non-bona fide props and hookers. It's a recipe for serious injury.

The Toulouse game shocked me - and Michalak was a train wreck - the forward pass into the welcoming arms of a Leinster player for the game breaking try was a real double take 'did he really just do that' moment.

On You Know Who's behalf -

Biarritz will eat Bath alive, I fancy Leinster to edge Munster tidily and i think the trophy may be heading to Dublin this year...

Leinster -v- Munster should be a corker. I saw both of them in the earlier rounds when I had the access to Sky. If the Leinster backline fires, I fancy them.

You could end up all alone talking to yourself one day finbar ... Oh, that's right, you're a Warratahs supporter. I guess that means nobody will be posting.

I wish I could make sense of that. Then again, I wish I knew why the Western Farce existed.

[Havak]

I prefer to think of myself as a Lennox Lewis – occasionally over confident but normally spot on.

At one point you thought it could be the absence of Gibson, but the rubbish I saw was symptomatic of something more serious

Well they are definitely missing Gibson – Smith is in poor form and Hipkiss seems to forget it is a team sport at times – but you are quite right that doesn’t explain the lack of basic rugby nonce that trotted out against Leeds and Bath.

You didn't think it was P. Howard. Do you still think that?

I’m moving towards pinning him slightly for it after his reaction to Saturday “we had mountains of chances but execution failed us”. It is a bit of an Ostriche job by him as the basic tactics used were wrong for the circumstances. He is head coach and the primary backs coach and at the moment it is all going wrong after it leaves the forwards so he has to carry some of the can now.

Don’t laugh but I am also blaming turnip. Why? Well our skipper is not the same man he was in December. His own personal form has dipped badly and he is bossing nothing on the field. Turnip and Dayglo have undermined him nicely I would say. We are lacking leadership on the field – the best we saw on Saturday was from your old mate VD when he came on at 60 mins – at least Austin looked like he wanted to win the damn game.

Gibson returned in the Developments sides thumping win last night so should be back in the 1sts soon – it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference. Tom Croft (the young lock) also had a stormer I am told. Rumour is Ben Kay may be heading to France next season as there is no room for him next year due to Croft.

You can't allow contested scrums involving non-bona fide props and hookers. It's a recipe for serious injury.

My instinct says that in all circumstances where the team with a man carded concedes a scrum situation a penalty should actually be awarded instead for the duration of the bin. That penalises the offenders and could be made to work I think? It would certainly make players think extra carefully about card offences?

On You Know Who's behalf

Did you see it? The pass was maybe 5M forwards. The Irish player who caught it was so surprised he nearly forgot to run it in!

If the Leinster backline fires, I fancy them.

The craic will be something else – Munster are renowned for their forwards, Leinster for their backs – and no love is lost at all between them.

Having said that Biarritz looked solid against Sale – but I am backing the Irish.

[finbar]

Sorry, been a bit busy. Buying a property!



Anyway, that aside. From my observation, and it was only a couple of matches - against Gloucester and Leeds, utter crap and crap respectively - there was zilch leadership. Yes, I know it was VD on both occasions, but I'm serious. They were rudderless on the field. But I don't think that's an excuse. They're professional rugby players with strong pedigrees, admittedly, in those games, minus their England men. All up, I really have to wonder about P. Howard's coaching. Either he's not doing the job, or they're not listening. He was one of the nice guys of Australian rugby in his day. Maybe he's too nice.

Nice to hear that Croft is on his way. I was very impressed with what I saw of him in that rep match. Amazingly mobile.

I didn't see the Toulouse forward pass. But I hope Tamerlin did!



The penalty in lieu of scrum for the carded team isn't a bad solution. Certainly it removes the disadvantage suffered by the non-carded team with uncontested scrums. You should write to the IRB.

Okay, I'll see your Lennox Lewis, and raise you a Tommy Cooper. Um. Sorry, Henry Cooper.

[Havak]

Buying a property? Congratulations.

He was one of the nice guys of Australian rugby in his day. Maybe he's too nice.

Perhaps so. One can excuse a coach if his team do a headless chicken act once – but when it becomes a habit he must shoulder some of the blame.

Ironically the huge dip in form pretty much coincides with the club announcing Pat was staying another season.

My club has already proven that being a warmly regarded player of high repute does not prevent you being sacked when coach – just asked the Harlequins Director of Rugby.

Nice to hear that Croft is on his way. I was very impressed with what I saw of him in that rep match. Amazingly mobile.

Within touching distance now – the development side had him on the bench but he is now one of the five senior locks in pole position in the squad – Kay, Deacon, Hamilton, Cullen and now Croft as well – not bad for just turned 20.

Hmmm – just noticed that of the English lads only Kay is over 25 in that bunch (Leinster lad Cullen is 28). As a club we do churn out good (and now young) English locks. But oh for a back line production plant too.

You should write to the IRB.

I would need an editor to remove the expletives most probably. How are you fixed?

Okay, I'll see your Lennox Lewis, and raise you a Tommy Cooper. Um. Sorry, Henry Cooper.

Ah yes “Our Henry” – beloved of a nation for landing one punch on Casius Clay before being totally hammered by him. I have more in common with Tommy never the less (not quite as addicted to alcohol though).

*edit* Not totally sure if Henry should be mentioned in a line of thought prompted by Bugner. Henry after all did manage to hit someone in the ring.

[finbar]

Okay. Now let's get truly esoteric. Chris Eubank.

The property buying all happened in a huge hurry. Unusual for Italy, because nothing happens in a hurry here. I'd seen a place advertised late last year. Sounded ideal for us. Spacious, light, two-bedroom apartment in the old part of the town - where we currently are, and where most of the buildings date from the 16th C, with quite a few 13th and 14th C things like churches. But the major appeal was a 265sqm garden, which is like solid gold in a place as tiny and cramped as old towns such as this. Then, last week, I saw it was still on the market. We went and had a look. And bingo! We signed the paperwork last night and settle on July 27th at the latest.

Mrs finbar has to nick back to Oz where we have our household belongings stored, sort through them, and decide what to ship over. The first thing into the packing crate is the plasma TV. So the first thing I'll do when we move in is tee up Brit Sky for the rugby!

[Havak]

Chris Eubank? A true 'care in the community' case if ever I saw one.

Sounds like a fantastic pad for you - and a solid plan to get Sky in place ASAP.

[finbar]

Last I read of Mr Eubank, he was bankrupt, wearing flash clothes and driving an even flasher car. Struck me that he fitted the Leicester supporter mould to a tee.

[Havak]

Although given he is from down south he is clearly a Wasps fan really.

Some good news - Matt Dawson has announced his retirement at the end of the season. This means Wasps have a headache (which is good) and also that Turnip must pick another youngster for the June trip to Oz. It should be Richards or Perry - but I have a sneaking feeling turnip is stupid enough to fall back on the 30 something Gomersall again to back up Harry (who himself needs a kick up the butt to get him shipping ball quicker).

[LDiCesare]

Finbar's becoming a real Italian!

You missed a really nice forward pass.
It was indeed, something puzzling and awesome. Imagine:
A scrum about Toulouse's 22 meters. The ball is expelled normally and reaches Michalak, who is charged by an Irish. The fly half astutely steps by and avoids the charger. Now surely he will kick. He seems to prepare for a kick, or maybe not, he... oh, he decides to counter attack 10 meters from his line. But, wait. There are players in front of him. One of them grabs him. Poor Michalak can't run now, he's going to be tackled. So he makes a pass. Or, rather, he tries to get rid of the ball. Somewhere. Presumably to his winger, although it looks unlikely considering the way the ball was sent. It was a nice pass, mind you. Had it been a pass made by an Irish, it would have been a perfect pass. The flanker who receives the pass almost walks to score the try.
I suppose Michalak had drunk too much Guiness at the De danu bar and momentaneously mistaken which side was his.

[finbar]

I wish I'd seen it!

I'm not sure that I'll ever qualify as a real Italian. I'm not remotely interested in soccer.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

You missed a really nice forward pass.
It was indeed, something puzzling and awesome. Imagine:
A scrum about Toulouse's 22 meters. The ball is expelled normally and reaches Michalak, who is charged by an Irish. The fly half astutely steps by and avoids the charger. Now surely he will kick. He seems to prepare for a kick, or maybe not, he... oh, he decides to counter attack 10 meters from his line. But, wait. There are players in front of him. One of them grabs him. Poor Michalak can't run now, he's going to be tackled. So he makes a pass. Or, rather, he tries to get rid of the ball. Somewhere. Presumably to his winger, although it looks unlikely considering the way the ball was sent. It was a nice pass, mind you. Had it been a pass made by an Irish, it would have been a perfect pass. The flanker who receives the pass almost walks to score the try.
I suppose Michalak had drunk too much Guiness at the De danu bar and momentaneously mistaken which side was his.

I heard about that one. The ultimate penalty I guess ...

From the sounds of things Wasps gave the Scarlets a good thumping in that Anglo-Welsh competition. Is Havak more upset that Wasps won than he is pleased that a Welsh team lost?

And of course it had to happen eventually. The dynamic new Australian S14 team finally won a game. Almost.
I had to include this as I know how tremendous the fascination is with this new team of up-and-comers, both in this thread and on the international stage at large.

Yes, I did read the sports section in this mornings local paper.

[Havak]

It was a tough one for me Ravagon - Llanelli are coached by a man I detest (so I do hope he gets the Wales job) and I simply hate Wasps who are hugely over rated but who I have to admit time their best performances well.

I was hoping for a 'no contest' outcome to be honest.

Push me and I have to say I am glad the English side prevailed I guess.

As for Western Force did you perhaps misread things and go by the half time score? It looks like they actually lost yet another game to me?

*edit* Oops, must learn to read your posts more carefully.

Oh and LDiCesare pretty much nailed Michalak's triumph. I have never seen a player as surpised as the Irish lad he passed to.

[finbar]

Did Leicester play on the weekend? I couldn't find any mention.

And of course it had to happen eventually. The dynamic new Australian S14 team finally won a game. Almost.
I had to include this as I know how tremendous the fascination is with this new team of up-and-comers, both in this thread and on the international stage at large.

Yes, I did read the sports section in this mornings local paper.

Presumably you've streamlined your search for the weekly Western Farce result in the paper? Your eye automatically seeks out the lowest score of the lot?