The super human Putin.

[Saras]

This is relevant to your crap opinions about ESTONIA how?

[germanos]

Originally posted by Serb


Serb is not the author of this article. The guy who wrote this is retired Major Ron Hamilton who served in US Army Intelligence. Since he is American, it's not surprising that he compares Putin with American presidents.

offcourse not. I do not expect you to make a pact with yourself.

But I'm surprised to see you endorsing an article that speaks of the crappy state of Russia (as quoted) and that puts Putin on the same level as the evil Bush.


not to mention US army intelligence. It's the first time I see you state this as evidence for anything.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
This is relevant to your crap opinions about ESTONIA how?

Looks like you need more. Ok. This time about Estonia and about a non-existed (according to Saras) nazi march in Tallinn.
From:

http://english.sem40.ru/anti_semitism/8593/index.shtml?print=1

" Outrage as SS men hold anniversary celebration in Estonia
The EU newcomer Estonia was accused of amorality and gross historical insensitivity yesterday after it allowed veterans of the Nazi Waffen-SS to parade through its capital Tallinn.

The event saw veterans of the 20th Estonian SS division attend a church service, lay flowers at a war memorial and attend a celebratory concert.

The planned unveiling of a memorial to Estonian SS troops was cancelled at the last minute, however, and is not now expected to take place until the autumn.

Jewish groups pointed out that Estonian volunteers in the SS were responsible for the almost complete annihilation of the country's Jewish population during the Second World War.

Tallinn City Council gave yesterday's event its blessing. It said that it was a "political matter" but, despite promises to the contrary, failed to provide an explanation of why it had agreed to the commemoration.

When asked to comment, Estonia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said the matter was not within its competence, while a government spokesman who apparently specialises in the subject did not respond to inquiries. Officials said that anything concerning Estonia's SS fighters was "highly sensitive". Estonian SS units were formed in 1942 on the personal orders of Adolf Hitler, whose troops then occupied the tiny country. Their fighting prowess was said to have impressed the German Wehrmacht.

Organisers said the celebration was held to mark the 60th anniversary of battles fought by the Estonian SS against the Soviet army and to commemorate the 10th anniversary of the withdrawal of Russian troops from the country.

Many Estonians regard the SS veterans as freedom fighters who fought alongside the Germans to stave off Soviet occupation - the country was occupied by the Soviets before and after the war - and argue that they are military men rather than fascists. They see nothing shameful or controversial in such events and view external criticism as an attempt to blacken Estonia's name.

Government sources say that Estonia is a free country that respects freedom of assembly and that the country's history is not as black and white as it is often made out to be. Jewish groups strongly disagree.

Yesterday's event, organised by a group called the Union of Freedom Fighters which claims 3,000 members, is not unprecedented; similar events have been held 11 times since the country won its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.

Earlier this year Jewish groups were similarly outraged when a statue to a colonel in the SS alleged to have the blood of thousands of Jews and Russians on his hands was erected in the north of the country. The unveiling of the statue - to Colonel Alfons Rebane - was attended by a member of the Estonian parliament and the government itself refused to condemn it, let alone insist on its destruction.

The way in which the Estonian SS veterans are treated by the authorities generates particular anger in the country's former imperial master Russia, which regards the elderly fighters as beyond the pale.

"Today Estonian fascists represent themselves as 'the noble fighters for the freedom of Estonia'. But the words 'the struggle for freedom' cannot stand near the swastika and the two horrible letters SS," said the Interfax news agency, which is closely connected to the Russian government."


Happy now? Or do you want to know more?

[Serb]

Originally posted by germanos


offcourse not. I do not expect you to make a pact with yourself.

But I'm surprised to see you endorsing an article that speaks of the crappy state of Russia (as quoted) and that puts Putin on the same level as the evil Bush.


not to mention US army intelligence. It's the first time I see you state this as evidence for anything.

I did that, because in general your western media is extremelly unfair towards Russia and Putin. That was the first time when I saw a more or less fair evaluation of Putin activities done by a westerner. And what is esp. important, is that aside the horde of bullsh!tters who hardly can find Moscow on the map, but still wrote all kinds of unbelievable crap about Putin&Russia, this westerner is an American Intellegence officer whose duty was to analyze events in Russia, in other words he is professional.

[Pekka]

Serb, I never claimed Russian gov supports these thugs. And those links were simply the first ones I googled, and as I said I couldn't be bothered to search the whole internet for numerous cases of neonazi attacks against folks, resulting to numerous deaths. And like I said, comparing to neonazis around the globe, they aren't that special groups.

But it has seen rising in numbers bigger than in most countries recently.

And don't worry, that case you just posted about Estonia made media in here as well.

However if you are trying to somehow point that Estonia, Baltics in that matter is some kind of Nazi hotbed, man you are mistaken so bad. OF course there are nazi sympathies in every country. But the level it is in Baltics is some sorry ass miniscule ... that's why I said, you have more neonazis than balts combined. And they kill people.

But I'm not here to argue about balts and estonia being nazi sympathetic. They just hate your ass. I think that's more accurate. And the reason they hate, or someo of them hate, beucase not all do, has nothing to do with nazi sympathizing, except maybe 0.1%.

[Saras]

I would tend to agree with this statement

Many Estonians regard the SS veterans as freedom fighters who fought alongside the Germans to stave off Soviet occupation - the country was occupied by the Soviets before and after the war - and argue that they are military men rather than fascists.

By and large, this was the avenue taken by most Estonian young men willing to get back at Soviets for its illegal occupation of Estonia and mass deportations prior to the war. Of course some committed atrocities, but (I'll allow myself to open a potential can of worms) again, atrocities committed by the Soviets in Germany do not, in the grand scheme of things, taint the Red Army, which was fighting against Germany for the greater good of humanity.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
I would tend to agree with this statement

Many Estonians regard the SS veterans as freedom fighters who fought alongside the Germans to stave off Soviet occupation - the country was occupied by the Soviets before and after the war - and argue that they are military men rather than fascists.

And I would tend to agree with this statement
"Today Estonian fascists represent themselves as 'the noble fighters for the freedom of Estonia'. But the words 'the struggle for freedom' cannot stand near the swastika and the two horrible letters SS,"

By and large, this was the avenue taken by most Estonian young men willing to get back at Soviets for its illegal occupation of Estonia and mass deportations prior to the war. Of course some committed atrocities, but (I'll allow myself to open a potential can of worms) again, atrocities committed by the Soviets in Germany do not, in the grand scheme of things, taint the Red Army, which was fighting against Germany for the greater good of humanity.

Whatever. We will never agree over certain issues.
But please, keep us informed about other "non-existing events".

[Pekka]

we can do th at, and you can keep us informed with the current superpower that is Russia, m'kay

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
Serb, I never claimed Russian gov supports these thugs. And those links were simply the first ones I googled, and as I said I couldn't be bothered to search the whole internet for numerous cases of neonazi attacks against folks, resulting to numerous deaths. And like I said, comparing to neonazis around the globe, they aren't that special groups.

But it has seen rising in numbers bigger than in most countries recently.

And don't worry, that case you just posted about Estonia made media in here as well.

However if you are trying to somehow point that Estonia, Baltics in that matter is some kind of Nazi hotbed, man you are mistaken so bad. OF course there are nazi sympathies in every country. But the level it is in Baltics is some sorry ass miniscule ... that's why I said, you have more neonazis than balts combined.

And we have more population (like 145 million) than balts combined, so?
The attitude of government what makes the difference, not sheer numbers.

[Pekka]

So while you keep pointing fingers, you have problems to work out yourself first.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Pekka
we can do th at, and you can keep us informed with the current superpower that is Russia, m'kay

Nah, I'm too tired right now. Yesterday was a great Russian holiday - the second anniversary of Serb's wedding. I feel really bad whole day. What I need now is a can of cold beer.

[Serb]

BTW, I have Putin on the desktop of my working PC. He sees everything.

"I see you. You aren't working"

[Pekka]

haha.. hope you had good time

I don't feel like arguing now either. Have things to do.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb
But please, keep us informed about other "non-existing events".

Nazis did not march in Tallinn. Old geezers which served in a military arm of SS did. BIG difference.

[Serb]

So, SS veterans aren't nazis?
Unf*ckingbelievable.
And WTF is military arm of SS?