Chicago cafe owner takes a stand against boisterous children!

[binTravkin]

Thanks, lord of the mark, that's a very good quote about you and your children.

I have had my part in raising two of them [kids] and I know what is the difference.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
apparently the reporter got her facts wrong about at least one of the other businesses

http://www.poise.cc/didyouknow/archives/20051109.php

While they should have asked for a comment, I like this comment from the blog:

Children are never "kicked out" of our Storytime. Our Storytime has several simple rules, which the children all recite at the beginning, and which we feel are the minimum necessary for avoiding chaos in a group that usually numbers 30-40 kids from 0-5. These rules are "We stay sitting on our bottoms; No eating; Use our ears to listen." Parents are requested to turn off cellphones. When a baby is fussy or a child cannot sit still for the entire half-hour, it is suggested that the parent/nanny take them away from the Storytime area until the child has calmed down again, so as not to disrupt the experience for everyone else. We have been conducting Storytime with an enthusiastic, overflow crowd for almost 20 years according to these rules.

I dunno... sounds like 'kicked out' to me

Though it seems the male clerk part may have been incorrect, but you never know if it was just a typo and should have been listed as 'her'.

[Arrian]

Kids just like to make noise sometimes. They find their voices interesting, and like to just yell random stuff, 'cause it's fun. I actually find that amusing at times (this is DEFINITELY because I'm not a parent ), but I don't necessarily want to deal with it over dinner (if/when I do, I'll have a kid! ). I contend that I can coexist quite well in the world with JohnT and LOTM (and Sophie and POTM).

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


While they should have asked for a comment, I like this comment from the blog:

Children are never "kicked out" of our Storytime. Our Storytime has several simple rules, which the children all recite at the beginning, and which we feel are the minimum necessary for avoiding chaos in a group that usually numbers 30-40 kids from 0-5. These rules are "We stay sitting on our bottoms; No eating; Use our ears to listen." Parents are requested to turn off cellphones. When a baby is fussy or a child cannot sit still for the entire half-hour, it is suggested that the parent/nanny take them away from the Storytime area until the child has calmed down again, so as not to disrupt the experience for everyone else. We have been conducting Storytime with an enthusiastic, overflow crowd for almost 20 years according to these rules.

I dunno... sounds like 'kicked out' to me

and there probably no boycott of this place. The reporter indicates one, but she got her facts wrong, so im not sure.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yet theres no boycott of this place

There was a portion of the article that says people have been avoiding the Storytime. Now the blog disputes that somewhat.

And only some are 'boycotting' A Taste of Heaven. It seems those with well behaved children are still going in for their cup of Joe. Then again, why would you sit in a coffee house for hours reading when you had a small kid with you? Wouldn't you think the kid would get bored or seeing you read a newspaper?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Kids just like to make noise sometimes. They find their voices interesting, and like to just yell random stuff, 'cause it's fun. I actually find that amusing at times (this is DEFINITELY because I'm not a parent ), but I don't necessarily want to deal with it over dinner (if/when I do, I'll have a kid! ). I contend that I can coexist quite well in the world with JohnT and LOTM (and Sophie and POTM).

-Arrian

If we lived in a family friendly world, a kid friendly world, and there were a few spoiled yuppie parents acting like jerks, id sympathize with the complaints. But when folks who dont recognize how family unfriendly this world is, and who defend some of the very cultural changes that make it unfriendly, come ranting about parents wanting to be worshipped, or some such BS, it gets my goat.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Yet theres no boycott of this place

There was a portion of the article that says people have been avoiding the Storytime. Now the blog disputes that somewhat.

And only some are 'boycotting' A Taste of Heaven. It seems those with well behaved children are still going in for their cup of Joe. Then again, why would you sit in a coffee house for hours reading when you had a small kid with you? Wouldn't you think the kid would get bored or seeing you read a newspaper?

Or maybe youre going in for a quick cup of coffee.

I took POTM to Starbucks when she was a kid. They gave her stickers - ethiopian supremo, that sort of thing. She loved it. Let this guy be a jerk, theyll be a lovely starbucks on his spot in five years.


But its so nice of you IS, to decide whether he should be reading a newspaper or not.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If we lived in a family friendly world, a kid friendly world

Yes... because you really hear politicians say "Let's think about the single adults!"

[binTravkin]

The fact that this is not a parent friendly world does not mean parents must forget about their children's manners as a sign of protest.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If we lived in a family friendly world, a kid friendly world

Yes... because you really hear politicians say "Let's think about the single adults!"

Ive been a single adult, IS. Its definitely easier.

Would you rather have been a single adult in the 1950's, back in the lovely era of kidfree restaurants?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by binTravkin
The fact that this is not a parent friendly world does not mean parents must forget about their children's manners as a sign of protest.

No, but it means that im not going to take some posters seriously on this issue, as a sign of protest.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If we lived in a family friendly world, a kid friendly world

Yes... because you really hear politicians say "Let's think about the single adults!"

you rarely hear politicians say "lets think about the rich" either. You can be assured they do, though.

[smacksim]

Our society seems caught in the middle of a choice: To allow children wherever adults can go and say "Parents are people too" or to maintain the inequalities of tradition, that "Those who will spoil the party are not invited". Of course this is a false choice, but the fact remains that parents and non-parents don't have a standard set of social rules and cues at this time. The modern fascination with fairness and equality at almost any cost has a-nihilated social tradition with the result that many situations don't have obvious answers.

For example, while I was managing a restaurant I might have asked a family with 'screamers' to leave (and all restaurant people call them that as far as I've encountered). The owner might have heard from the family and upbraided me for my cruelty. A co-worker might not even let in a birthday party of children, while another might have scheduled it for them in advance. In short, nobody knows what to do because there is no standard written or unwritten about what is either expected or allowed in public or semi-public venues. This causes a lot of grief. It is not that parent/children are not allowed in certain places, or that they are when they should not be, but that nobody knows what the frack to do about differing expectations when they arise out of the social vacuum that confuses principles (equality, fairness, freedom) with social constructs and mores.

Personally I feel a more traditional set of expectations, however rudely applied, would serve us better than any attempt to accept things like 'we're all equal and there's no law against noise....so........'. I've raised kids (albeit other people's kids), I've been a non-parent, and I've been a business owner. This is not to say that means anything in this debate. Parents who say "You just don't understand" and then turn around and refuse to remember what its like for others are selfish pigs whose children rule them (have to say something outlandish, it being 'poly OT).

Indeed we do see many parents being ruled by their children, as is oft-commented. Leave that for another topic......

The sense of entitlement is what is ridiculous. Yeah, parents have a right to be treated as other people, so turn that back on them when they say or do things demanding they be allowed anywhere with children in tow: "If you, good sir, were thrashing at display cases and throwing mashed potatoes at the server while screaming bloody murder, not only would I kick you out, but might call for assistance as I attempted to beat some sense into you. This is a venue for all people to enjoy and your children's cacophany is quite simply ruining it for everyone else. Have a care and do not bring them next time. Ah, now here are your lunches neatly packed for you to take to the PARK, that is FAR AWAY from here. Good day."

A couple things that are funny about the Chicago story are that while people would cheer the voluntary leaving of troublesome rugrats in one instance I would guess they are the very same who would sign a petition against the 'oh so unfair and cruel' signage of a premptive and thoughtful store owner. What the hell is wrong with us?

Why are we, in the main, so hung up on everyone's right to total freedoms whose very expressions we abhore?

Anyways, I thought it was an interesting diversion (the article) from the more contentious and seemingly important things discussed. I'm fully with the store owners on this one, but more to the point am with the idea that things shouldn't be fair and free in every circumstance, that social customs have a great utility, etc..

[Imran Siddiqui]

Would you rather have been a single adult in the 1950's, back in the lovely era of kidfree restaurants?

I would enjoy having the option of a kidfree restaurant or perhaps a kidfree theater.

It seems to me that for society to be any more 'kid friendly' means to take away any rights for single adults to have any fun (ie, banning 'M' rated video games).

[SpencerH]

I dont think the store owner is a jerk. Some places are willing to accept monsters running around 'just being kids' some are not. My family usually avoids the former. If these kids want to run around thats great, take em to a park, not to a restaurant. (and no I wouldnt be bothered about a 4mo old 'fussing' but I would be bothered by a 4 mo old 'fussing for a half hour while the parents ignored it).