The Death Penalty

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


So killing psychopaths won't deter the psychopaths from killing again?

And if you say they can be in for life, what about other prisoners? Do they not count to you? And you were saying about 'not better than those psychos'?

Can the psychopath never escape? Did you miss the story about the death row inmate escaping out of a Texas jail recently?

What the hell are you saying? !
I was saying that the death penalty doesn't scare off people committing these crimes, so why keep it... it's ethically wrong and you can't argue with that. Killing people is something you ought not to do! Psychopaths usually have a mental problem that makes them more inclined to kill. Executing them would be like punishing some mentally retarded person for being retarded. A paedophile didn't choose to be sexually attracted to children. Of course he should restrain himself from harassing people, but killing him for such a thing is too much of a punishment.

Where on earth have I said other inmates don't count to me? please

So what, one death row inmate escapes... is state security threatened? heh that's negligable... I'm more concerned about the fact that I can get whacked in a car accident everyday.
C'mon is one escaped convict an argument for killing people? I would hope not because that would be cold... really cold

[Sava]

Originally posted by Traianvs
it's ethically wrong and you can't argue with that.

this is just your opinion

and I absolutely can argue with you

some people think killing sperm is ethically wrong

[Whaleboy]

I disagree vehemently with the death penalty, but my arguments are long, numerous and effortsome. It's 20 past midnight GMT, and I can't be bothered.

State-sponsored murder: ( )

[Sava]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I disagree vehemently with the death penalty, but my arguments are long, numerous and effortsome. It's 20 past midnight GMT, and I can't be bothered.

State-sponsored murder: ( )

well, if you disagree with the DP, that's fine... I can respect that opinion...

but to call it "state-sponsored murder" is just stupid... it is just the same as the ignorant morons who say abortion is murder... or the idiots who say masturbation is murder (because of sperm loss)

murder is defined as "the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought"

I bolded the especially relevant parts.

I think what you should do Whaleboy, is after a murder is executed, go to the victims of the killer and say the state just commited MURDER.

Seriously, I think it would be in such good taste to equate capital punishment, in which a murderer is found guilty in a criminal court by a jury of his peers (in America anyways, what with our jury trials) to a brutal murder in which a family loses a loved one.

So please, go to the victims and tell them that the psychopath that was just put to death is the same as the murder that was commited that took their loved one away.

[SlowwHand]

Traianvs, state security? No, people's lives.

[flash9286]

My simplified reasons for not supporting DP:

1. It's racist.
2. It doesn't deter crime.
3. Once you kill someone, there is no going back.
4. Its costs a lot of money.
5. I don't believe the state should have the right to kill its own citizens.

[Sava]

1. how so? proof? based on the info I know one could make the argument the justice system itself is racist, regardless if the DP is legal or not...
2. neither does prison, should we abolish prison?
3. you also cannot give people back their lives after years of incarceration
4. proof? this is a common myth...
5. the only legitimate point you have... and this is your opinion

[flash9286]

Originally posted by Sava
1. how so? proof? based on the info I know one could make the argument the justice system itself is racist, regardless if the DP is legal or not...
2. neither does prison, should we abolish prison?
3. you also cannot give people back their lives after years of incarceration
4. proof? this is a common myth...
5. the only legitimate point you have... and this is your opinion

1. your 3 times more likely to recive capital punishment if your victim is white, Blacks constitute 50% of all murder victims, 83% of the victims in death penalty cases are white, I dont know about you but its clear to me that race plays to big a factor in determing if someone gets teh death plenty.
2. prison deters crime by keeping them in prison , of course you could say the same with the death plenty, but by keeping them in prison you don't have to kill them.
3 No you cant give them back their years, but if you kill them you cant even give them their remaing years.
4.

A 1993 Duke University study showed that the death penalty in North Carolina costs 2.16 million dollars more per execution than a non-death penalty murder trial. Research in other states indicates executions are three to six times more costly than life imprisonment. In 1999, the New Mexico State Public Defender Department estimated the state would save $1 to 2.5 million dollars per year on Public Defender costs alone if the death penalty was replaced with an alternative sentence

[Sava]

what are these sources?

[flash9286]

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=105&scid=5

www-pps.aas.duke.edu/people/faculty/cook/comnc.pdf

[Sava]

well, how far back do the stats go back?

is Oklahoma City bombing included in those stats? Because that would really mess things up... most of those people were white... like 300 or so died, but only 1 man was sentenced to death.

I won't argue that the DP has been applied in a racist manner, especially in the South, in the past...



but again, that is no reason that it cannot be used with a reformed justice system today...

if the DP had been illegal in the South, then instead of a bunch of black guys being put to death, they would have just been in prison for life and then died... so what is the difference?

if a bunch of racist cops in a racist justice system have no death penalty, it doesn't matter, they will still just lock up black people and convict them wrongfully no matter what!

the DP is a tool, it is amoral... if the system is fair and the system has been reformed, innocent people won't be put to death... especially with DNA evidence...

as I said before, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water

and there are a lot of reforms our justice system needs...

first of all, and most important of all, we need to decriminalize minor and non-violent drug offenses... this will solve prison over-crowding problems...

also, legalize marijuana...

this is not unrelated to the DP discussion... it is part of justice reform and how law enforcement resources are used...

When all is said and done, I think we can reform the justice system.

but my original question still remains... and no one has answered it...

why keep a violent murderer alive in prison?

Why?

What purpose does it serve?

How is it productive at all?

[flash9286]

I would seriously consider rethinking by position on death plenty, if the death plenty wasn't arbitrarily administrated, but it is. If the death plenty can't be adminstrated fairly, it shouldn't be at all.

[Odin]

Originally posted by flash9286
My simplified reasons for not supporting DP:

1. It's racist.
2. It doesn't deter crime.
3. Once you kill someone, there is no going back.
4. Its costs a lot of money.
5. I don't believe the state should have the right to kill its own citizens.

[Sava]

you quote something I pretty much shot down?



nice one

[Sava]

Originally posted by flash9286
I would seriously consider rethinking by position on death plenty, if the death plenty wasn't arbitrarily administrated, but it is. If the death plenty can't be adminstrated fairly, it shouldn't be at all.

I don't think you are aware of how rare the DP is used in America nowadays.

Very few states use it... and only the most violent offenders receive it.

It isn't "arbitrarily administrated" by any means.

With all due respect, you hold a great many misconceptions about the DP.