The "explain Hegel to Dracon" thread.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


And you're teaching Plato?

Plato is a far better philosopher than Hegel will ever be.

And there's a difference between teaching the history of philosophy (which is interesting for its own sake), and thinking that all historical figures in the subject are still relevant.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by JohnT
This is the internet. I'm sure he'll be able to find some appropriate "video" showing a true master/slave relationship.

"Prison Skanks 6: A Hegelian Interpretation"

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Agathon


Plato is a far better philosopher than Hegel will ever be.

And there's a difference between teaching the history of philosophy (which is interesting for its own sake), and thinking that all historical figures in the subject are still relevant.

You think that Plato is less deconstructed than Hegel, or you just happen to enjoy the older skeletons?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Dracon II
Hegel’s conception of self-consciousness initially pits the subject against a world of external objects. This relationship is characterised by tension; on the one hand the subject is self-conscious in that it is conscious of itself as acting upon the object-world, and of its project oriented conceptualization and use of the object-world as the object of its desires, of which it is self-conscious. But its knowledge of the object-world as it relates to self-consciousness is still only consciousness; the object-world is still seen as something separate, and does not, in-itself, validate or ratify the subject’s self-conscious projects as rational. For Hegel, this tension can only be resolved when self-consciousness attains universality, when self-consciousness incorporates the object world into itself. The subject initially attempts to achieve this by actively consuming the objects of its desires; incorporating them into itself, thus removing the tension between them. However, this process is inexhaustible and does not ultimately validate the subject’s project as rational. For Hegel, this can only occur if the project can be verified as rational by another self-conscious subject. The initial attempt to achieve this result is described in the various moments of the master-slave dialectic.

Wow! That really is bollocks. At various points in my life I've owned cars that were particularily frustrating, yet desp;ite the tension I've never once been tempted to eat one. This is not to mention all the tension I've experienced with my patients, yet I've never been tempted to gut one, douse 'em in barbecue sauce and roast 'em over an open flame. Well, almost never. Hegel evidently was light years more crazy than Nietzche!

[Fake Boris]

Why does Agathon always have to flee when I pwn him about Plato?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dracon II
. For Hegel, this tension can only be resolved when self-consciousness attains universality, when self-consciousness incorporates the object world into itself.

IE self consciousness is seen as universal thought, not as a genuine self, rooted in being - IIUC the core of the existentialist objection to Hegel and idealist philosophy, but also to earlier philosophy as well.

And yes, Ive been reading Rosenzweig this weekend, and thats where ive gotten this critique, as far as I understand it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Wow! That really is bollocks. At various points in my life I've owned cars that were particularily frustrating, yet desp;ite the tension I've never once been tempted to eat one. This is not to mention all the tension I've experienced with my patients, yet I've never been tempted to gut one, douse 'em in barbecue sauce and roast 'em over an open flame. Well, almost never. Hegel evidently was light years more crazy than Nietzche!

well you have alternate ways of dealing with cars and patients. What can self consciousness do with the world, but try to understand it? And when it does so, it is, by Hegels definition, incorporating the world - since to Hegel self-consciouness IS Thought (IIUC) and understanding eliminates the tension between Thought/self and world. Again, later thinkers reject this notion - Im reading Rosenzweig, who rejects it - im not sure quite how much Rosenzweing owes to Schopenhauer - R mentions Schopenhauer, but Im not sure i understand him on Schopenhauer. And Doc, you might be interested in R's discussion of Kierkegaard, as well.