Iranian President makes clear why Iran would be a responsible nuclear power

[Ecthy]

Sikander

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
I resent the claimt hat given a nuclear arsenal Iran would somehow start behaving in a more rational or civilized manner.

It is based on the assumption that terrorism is a 'weapon of the weak'. That is false. Terrorism is a weapon of choise, of those who have little moral limits. Most state supported terrorism originated from strong and able countries in their time (ussr, iran, syria, egypt).

Yes, terrorism is used usually as a way to avoid the use of standard military might. But it is not only a question of cost (money or politics). It is also a thing of convinience ("outsourcing" war) and levels of deterrance.

Yes, I share the view that Iran will not nuke Israel the next day it has a bomb.

However, currently Iran supports and influences strongly a handful of the meanest terrorist organizations (hezbullah, PIJ, hamas) and given the protection of nuclear deterrance - they would only INCREASE the use of such methods, knowing they can get away unpunished with greater ease.

Iran is not completely insane.

It is just unrational and uncivilized, in the sense that it is warmongering by proxy, and is a major sponsor of organizations that are set out to destroy Israel, whether by declaration or fact (hezbullah, hamas, PIJ and so on).

And once Iran gets nukes, they will have far less inhibitions to use the proxy terrorist weapons.

Infact, we may even start seeing "direct" Iranian action again, like the Iranian commandos who gunned down people in europe during the 80s! They were deterred from that, and they may find it feasible to do that again, knowing that they can't be threatened.

Strong, rational argument, Siro.

Iran likely will be in a position to meddle in other nations internal affairs once they join the ranks of all the other nuclear powers. And they likely will, since all the other nuclear powers do.

I just reject the argument that they are going to be USING NUKES as terrorist weapons.

Anyway, the statement was truly unfortunate, and rightly drew condemnation. I just think that it is important to remember that it is rhetoric for a political effect. Iran knows that Israel cannot be "wiped off the map".

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Should there be an all out NATO invasion of Iran?

I think if Iran doesn't desist there will be bombing of key facilities, possibly by unidentified forces.

You don't have to hit every target to seriously disrupt their nuclear program.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I think if Iran doesn't desist there will be bombing of key facilities, possibly by unidentified forces.

Hmm...

[Alexander's Horse]

unidentified with stealth technology...

[Imran Siddiqui]

As I said before, westerners have a worldview based on the Rennesance, the Scientific Revolution, and the Enlightenment.

So is Turkey "Western Civilization" or "Islamic Civilization"?

[Ecthy]

Turkey is a bit of both actually. No renaissance and no enlightenment, but large copycatting of the west.

AH - The Russians will join forces with the Americans to destroy the Persian civilization.

[Colon™]

You forgot the Roman & Greek heritage and Christianity, also defining features of the west. (especially Christianity is woefully underappreciated, it's because of the Church that we have marriages based on mutual consent, for instance)

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sikander


Well I think 200 "nucular" warheads targeting all of the major population centers in Iran could delay things a little while.

I think it might too.

The feasibility of a "limited engagement" is what I doubt.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Colon
You forgot the Roman & Greek heritage and Christianity, also defining features of the west. (especially Christianity is woefully underappreciated, it's because of the Church that we have marriages based on mutual consent, for instance)

I think the reason Christianity was important was because of the idea of Augustine's seperation of Chuch and State into seperate areas ( the concept of the City of God vs. the City of Man, IIRC) was an important prerequisite to modern secularism and seperation of Church and State. Islam, on the other hand, made religion and goverment inseperable, hence the stagnation in Islamic science when a wave of conservatism hit in the late middle ages (the Ottomans banning printing presses, for example).

The Graeco-Roman tradition was important because it was the "core" on which the Scientific Revolution, and moder concepts of law and the State, were built.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
unidentified with stealth technology...

So Canada?

[Odin]

F*ck, pressed the quote button insted of the edit button.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


So Canada?

You owe me 5 cents.

I'm starting to collect royalties on that joke.