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Supposedly, the anouncement will be made in an hour (that's what, 9am on the east coast?)
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The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.
The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut. -
It's supposed to be today. Current rumor is that Libby will be indicted while Rove will continue to be under investigation while the grand jury looks into claims he made during his recent 4th testimony. It is fully provable that Rove did leak the story to Robert Novak though (it just isn't clear if Rove knew leaking a CIA agent's name was a felony) so there is still a chance Rove will be indicted today though supposedly it is a long one.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - RahComment
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Please note Libby is not indicted for violating the federal Intelligence Identities Protection Act but is indicted for obstruction of justice, making false statements and perjury.
Plame was not a NOC.
EDIT: I just saw an interesting comment made by Peter Brook, a former CIA officer, that was very similar in content to what I've said here previously i.e. she may have been a NOC at one time and although we cant know for sure, it was very unlikely she was a NOC at the time she was 'outed' by Novak.
EDIT2: Andrea somethingorother from MSNBC on Chris somethingorothers show just said that her info is that the CIA's damage assessment was that there was no damage from the leak. Again, circumstantial evidence that she was not A NOC.Last edited by SpencerH; October 28, 2005, 15:46.We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.Comment
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Well, I don't exactly trust this Andrea somethingorother.
I do trust Fitzgerald though.
According to Libby's indictment:
On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Divison. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA.
As Josh Marshall has pointed out, the Counterproliferation Division is in the Directorate of Operations (not the Directorate Intelligence). So she was definitely not an analyst. So Rove/Libby very likely compromised operations, and perhaps lives."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Please note Libby is not indicted for violating the federal Intelligence Identities Protection Act
Because Fitz can't prove intent, as he said at the press conference."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Exactly. Fitz said so himself yesterday.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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So there was no crime before the investigation?
Okay Joe, we think you murdered someone.
No, no, I didn't do it, I was bowling at the time of the murder.
Joe, we checked out your story, you lied.
Okay okay, I was cheating on my wife.
Well Joe, your story checks out, but instead of murder charges, we're prosecuting you for obstructing justice.
Comment
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Oh, wait, if Fitzgerald cant indict because the standard is too high, it still means the WH outed an agent who was being protected by the CIA. So she must have been covered by the law as far as the CIA was concerned. I'm sure the spirit of the law was to go after people outing agents for the enemy, not domestic partisan politics.Comment
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Andrea Mitchell is the Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent for NBC News.Originally posted by Ramo
Well, I don't exactly trust this Andrea somethingorother.
Good, you trust Fitzgerald. So do I, he seemed very competent and he hit the nail on the head when he said that this would effect the intel community in a general way; it would effect the confidence of agents within the community and those joining the community i.e. that they would be concerned about being outed by some government hack (unfortunately I couldnt find the exact text of what he said). I agree with that sentiment 100% and always have. After all, 20 or so years ago I wouldnt have wanted my name to be mentioned in connection to where I worked. I want those responsible for this to be punished. I want a clear message sent that this political bull**** would not be tolerated.I do trust Fitzgerald though.
According to Libby's indictment:
On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Divison. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA.
As Josh Marshall has pointed out, the Counterproliferation Division is in the Directorate of Operations (not the Directorate Intelligence). So she was definitely not an analyst. So Rove/Libby very likely compromised operations, and perhaps lives.
What Fitzgerald did not say, however, was that there had been serious or severe damage done to our intelligence gathering capabilities as a result of the leak. Again, that suggests that Plame was not A NOC. Whether she was an analyst or provided some other desk function at Langley is irrelevant. For all we know, she may have worked in administration. She had a 'light' covert status (as do most people who work for the CIA) and that was all. She was not being actively 'protected' by the CIA and was therefore outside of the parameters of the federal Intelligence Identities Protection Act.We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.Comment
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What the heck, she wasn't very good at it anyway."I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!Comment
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I just read Fitzgerald's press conference in our local paper, and he thought it was pretty serious and that she was covered by the law. The problem was "intent", not whether she was covered by the law. It's nice to see an old-style Republican at work.
And yes, Berz, all the conspiracy and other laws have always made me very nervous. Instead they should have written the law clearly, and then nailed the SOB. However, we ARE talking politicians.The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.Comment
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Woodward testifies in CIA leak case
Editor says senior administration official told him about Plame
By Jim VandeHei and Carol D. Leonnig
The Washington Post
Updated: 7:23 a.m. ET Nov. 16, 2005
Washington Post Assistant Managing Editor Bob Woodward testified under oath Monday in the CIA leak case that a senior administration official told him about CIA operative Valerie Plame and her position at the agency nearly a month before her identity was disclosed.
In a more than two-hour deposition, Woodward told Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald that the official casually told him in mid-June 2003 that Plame worked as a CIA analyst on weapons of mass destruction, and that he did not believe the information to be classified or sensitive, according to a statement Woodward released yesterday.
Fitzgerald interviewed Woodward about the previously undisclosed conversation after the official alerted the prosecutor to it on Nov. 3 -- one week after Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was indicted in the investigation.
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Citing a confidentiality agreement in which the source freed Woodward to testify but would not allow him to discuss their conversations publicly, Woodward and Post editors refused to disclose the official's name or provide crucial details about the testimony. Woodward did not share the information with Washington Post Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr. until last month, and the only Post reporter whom Woodward said he remembers telling in the summer of 2003 does not recall the conversation taking place.
Woodward said he also testified that he met with Libby on June 27, 2003, and discussed Iraq policy as part of his research for a book on President Bush's march to war. He said he does not believe Libby said anything about Plame.
He also told Fitzgerald that it is possible he asked Libby about Plame or her husband, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. He based that testimony on an 18-page list of questions he planned to ask Libby in an interview that included the phrases "yellowcake" and "Joe Wilson's wife." Woodward said in his statement, however, that "I had no recollection" of mentioning the pair to Libby. He also said that his original government source did not mention Plame by name, referring to her only as "Wilson's wife."
Shifting chronology
Woodward's testimony appears to change key elements in the chronology Fitzgerald laid out in his investigation and announced when indicting Libby three weeks ago. It would make the unnamed official -- not Libby -- the first government employee to disclose Plame's CIA employment to a reporter. It would also make Woodward, who has been publicly critical of the investigation, the first reporter known to have learned about Plame from a government source.
The testimony, however, does not appear to shed new light on whether Libby is guilty of lying and obstructing justice in the nearly two-year-old probe or provide new insight into the role of senior Bush adviser Karl Rove, who remains under investigation.
Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Rove, said that Rove is not the unnamed official who told Woodward about Plame and that he did not discuss Plame with Woodward.
William Jeffress Jr., one of Libby's lawyers, said yesterday that Woodward's testimony undermines Fitzgerald's public claims about his client and raises questions about what else the prosecutor may not know. Libby has said he learned Plame's identity from NBC journalist Tim Russert.
"If what Woodward says is so, will Mr. Fitzgerald now say he was wrong to say on TV that Scooter Libby was the first official to give this information to a reporter?" Jeffress said last night. "The second question I would have is: Why did Mr. Fitzgerald indict Mr. Libby before fully investigating what other reporters knew about Wilson's wife?"
Fitzgerald has spent nearly two years investigating whether senior Bush administration officials illegally leaked classified information -- Plame's identity as a CIA operative -- to reporters to discredit allegations made by Wilson. Plame's name was revealed in a July 14, 2003, column by Robert D. Novak, eight days after Wilson publicly accused the administration of twisting intelligence to justify the Iraq war.
Fitzgerald's spokesman, Randall Samborn, declined to comment yesterday.
CONTINUED
Woodward is a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter and author best known for exposing the Watergate scandal and keeping secret for 30 years the identity of his government source "Deep Throat."
"It was the first time in 35 years as a reporter that I have been asked to provide information to a grand jury," he said in the statement.
Downie said The Post waited until late yesterday to disclose Woodward's deposition in the case in hopes of persuading his sources to allow him to speak publicly. Woodward declined to elaborate on the statement he released to The Post late yesterday afternoon and publicly last night. He would not answer any questions, including those not governed by his confidentiality agreement with sources.
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According to his statement, Woodward also testified about a third unnamed source. He told Fitzgerald that he does not recall discussing Plame with this person when they spoke on June 20, 2003.
It is unclear what prompted Woodward's original unnamed source to alert Fitzgerald to the mid-June 2003 mention of Plame to Woodward. Once he did, Fitzgerald sought Woodward's testimony, and three officials released him to testify about conversations he had with them. Downie, Woodward and a Post lawyer declined to discuss why the official may have stepped forward this month.
Downie defended the newspaper's decision not to release certain details about what triggered Woodward's deposition because "we can't do anything in any way to unravel the confidentiality agreements our reporters make."
Woodward never mentioned this contact -- which was at the center of a criminal investigation and a high-stakes First Amendment legal battle between the prosecutor and two news organizations -- to his supervisors until last month. Downie said in an interview yesterday that Woodward told him about the contact to alert him to a possible story. He declined to say whether he was upset that Woodward withheld the information from him.
‘Are you kidding?’
Downie said he could not explain why Woodward provided a tip about Wilson's wife to Walter Pincus, a Post reporter writing about the subject, but did not pursue the matter when the CIA leak investigation began. He said Woodward has often worked under ground rules while doing research for his books that prevent him from naming sources or even using the information they provide until much later.
Woodward's statement said he testified: "I told Walter Pincus, a reporter at The Post, without naming my source, that I understood Wilson's wife worked at the CIA as a WMD analyst."
Pincus said he does not recall Woodward telling him that. In an interview, Pincus said he cannot imagine he would have forgotten such a conversation around the same time he was writing about Wilson.
"Are you kidding?" Pincus said. "I certainly would have remembered that."
Pincus said Woodward may be confused about the timing and the exact nature of the conversation. He said he remembers Woodward making a vague mention to him in October 2003. That month, Pincus had written a story explaining how an administration source had contacted him about Wilson. He recalled Woodward telling him that Pincus was not the only person who had been contacted.
Woodward, who is preparing a third book on the Bush administration, has called Fitzgerald "a junkyard-dog prosecutor" who turns over every rock looking for evidence. The night before Fitzgerald announced Libby's indictment, Woodward said he did not see evidence of criminal intent or of a substantial crime behind the leak.
"When the story comes out, I'm quite confident we're going to find out that it started kind of as gossip, as chatter," he told CNN's Larry King.
Woodward also said in interviews this summer and fall that the damage done by Plame's name being revealed in the media was "quite minimal."
"When I think all of the facts come out in this case, it's going to be laughable because the consequences are not that great," he told National Public Radio this summer.
© 2005 The Washington Post Company
No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.Comment
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This case keeps getting stranger and stranger. The whole case against Libby now seems based on incomplete information at best.
The only thing that seems certain in this story is that nobody was harmed irreparably by the original disclosure of Plame's identity. I guess that must have been the reason for Woodward's scorn for the case.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Considering what Pincus said, I think I'd question Woodward's credibility. He has plenty of reason to heap scorn on the case--if it really wasn't a big deal, then his ass may not be in big trouble. Otherwise, it may be. Why Woodward, a reporter, is qualified to decide if leaking a CIA agent's identity is a big deal or not is beyond me.
I'll take the stance of CIA agents over his any day:
Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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