UN Flunks Economics Again

[DanS]

Originally posted by Flubber


Wow- What an amazingly inaccurate statement

The fact is that these people are dumping investment money in the US. The books are balancing.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Do you think that either side of this debate is actually talking about something other than money?

Yes. Seriously.

And I'm usually cynical (especially about my own government, France). But there is the perception here that culture is something very important, that should not be dependent of the ebb and flow of money. Such a value is highly shared by the overwhelming majority of Frenchmen, including our leaders.

It is tempting to paint France as a country of cultural jingoists who don't care one notch for the rest of the world. But it's false. France is actually fairly multicultural. It is the first western country to have been very interested in the Japanese filmmaking, it's country where Bollywood movies are getting increasingly fashionable, it's a country where big somestic movies from other European countries also get a strong audience (like Goodbye Lenin, Lola Rennt, or pretty much everything by Pedro Almodovar ). An African movie can even occasionally be fairly successul (I'm thinking of Kirikou).

I'm sure that quite a few countries also see culture as something the non-market mechanisms should have a role in. That this idea is deeply rooted, and not only for money's sake.

Now, money of course plays a role. But if money had been the only motivator, this decision wouldn't have happened. Because culture is far from being the most profitable market, and yet it is the only market (with intellectual property) where the purity of market mechanisms get challenged.

[DanS]

And I'm usually cynical (especially about my own government, France). But there is the perception here that culture is something very important, that should not be dependent of the ebb and flow of money.

Yet you measure Hollywood's influence on French culture by the ebb and flow of money (i.e., market share). What a crock.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
I fail to see how this will help you continue to produce quality movies. Internal subsidies to film companies are entirely different than a convention that could actively block our exports. I think the support France gives its arts is wonderful, and I wish our government would do the same - what I object to is France, not the US, treating this like a trade issue.

Well, we have an experience with music. As you probably know, the minister of Culture Jacques Toubon started quotas on French radios about 10 years ago. Every radio had to broadcast French artists, European artists, and Young French Artists.

It led to the rise of a new generation of musicians. Talented musicians. A spectacular change, considering that these groups started enjoying these groups almost immediately.
Actually, these musicians existed prior to the quotas. Only that they were on a very small musical scene, doing small concerts and selling CDs under non-famous labels. As a result, they got nearly no exposure.

Now, you might think that they got no exposure because the American artists were better, or at least more marketable. I doubt it, considering the continuous success of French music since the quotas. I think the main reason they got little exposure is because of the radio leader's cheapness and conservatism (not in the political meaning). They knew that they would get audience with American artists. They were spoon-fed by the major labels. As it wasn't broke, they weren't going to fix it. Especially since majorly investing in French music could be very risky, as French music had an image of suckage (which it deserved, as the 80ies were abysmally crappy).

When we forced the market to change its ways, French music bloomed like a flower in the desert. I admit that today's French mainstream music has been taken back by major labels which promote the French brand of "idol" crap. However, listening to French music is accepted by all categories of population, who enjoy it. As a result, we still have good new talents that regularly pop up. The quotas help, because they don't only force to air French music, but they also force to air French music from young artists. It allows for a constant renewal of French music

I agree that the movie industry is failry different. However, exposure is a very important matter in movies as well.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DanS
Yet you measure Hollywood's influence on French culture by the ebb and flow of money (i.e., market share). What a crock.

Well, I'd prefer polls for a more accurate measure. I wouldn't be surprised if suhc polls had been conducted.

[DanS]

In other words, you're admitting that you're doing precisely what you accuse Americans of doing.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by DanS
In other words, you're admitting that you're doing precisely what you accuse Americans of doing.

I don't accuse the Americans of caring about market share. There is nothing bad about it. I accuse the Americans of thinking only in terms of market (at least, that's how they behave in international bargainings), and thus of smothering local cultural production.

For the Americans, market share is the indicator of the money their companies make. For the others, market share is an indicator to the exposure to their culture. It's not the same perspective at all.

[DanS]

Sounds like a lame distinction without a difference, Spiffor.

[Spiffor]

For someone who cannot think of anything but money, probably so.

[DanS]

In addition, that's a lame rejoinder. You aren't entertaining me today.

[Spiffor]

Sorry. Unlike the Yankish pre-digested "culture", France isn't all about entertainment and immediate gratification.

[Spiffor]

And additionnally, I'm exhausted (construction-working rots your brain and stamina)

[Japher]

France isn't all about entertainment and immediate gratification

Is that why you all work 30 hours/week?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Japher
Is that why you all work 30 hours/week?

Absolutely. That's because we want to enlight ourselves with culture

(for example, If I hadn't been so exhausted, I'd be happily playing Guild Wars right now)

[Japher]

way to contradict yourself