China Crisis: threat to the global environment

[DaShi]

I know. I'm beginning to notice this pattern when discussing China. Perhaps, I should just write a single post and copy and paste it over and over.

I have the perferct one too!

"Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan

[Japher]

I will support my claim of "lame" to

It may or may not be "sustainable", with the USA retaining the current standard. But explain why the USA should be permitted a 3% annual increase, and the Chinese should not be permitted to catch up?

with

Blaming them is counterproductive to finding solutions to the limits of the earth's resources.

Both Mad Viking Quotes

and that repeat myself with "IMO, giving those resources over to a 3rd world country who is going to do nothing new with those resources, only play catchup, is very counterproductive."

and add

...and does nothing to help solve what to do about limited resources.

TMV is just bashing the US, and that's fine. However, it is developed countries, countries that NEED alternative resources in order to meet demand that will find the solution. NEcessity is the mother invention. Thrid world countries will not, because they don't have the need. They, as well as first world countries, resist change. First world countries will resist changing into a 3rd world country because of depleting resources, and 3rd world countries will resist becoming a 1st world country no matter how many raw materials and finished goods you throw at them.

[Agathon]

and that repeat myself with "IMO, giving those resources over to a 3rd world country who is going to do nothing new with those resources, only play catchup, is very counterproductive."

You mean like the United States?

[DinoDoc]

Don't you have students to bore?

[Japher]

You mean like the United States?

No. We're #1!

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by DaShi

How so? Where is there anti-Chinese sentiment in my post? That's a big claim, so please back it up. Thanks for the insults, but I'm used to them when discussing China with irrational people. You wouldn't happen to be one of those people, would you?

You are accusing them of terrible crimes against the environment. Where is your evidence? A few generic quotations from a Greenpeace article?

How so? If it's so clear, please show us an example.

I did. Twice. Here it is a third time.
"The Greenpeace report is one of the first major indictments of the {b]catastrophic[/b] environmental effects the great Chinese industrial behemoth is starting to have on the rest of the world."

behemoth: Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin, from Hebrew behEmOth
1 often capitalized : a mighty animal described in Job
2 something of monstrous size or power

First, strawman again, since you aren't proving that population growth is the main cause.

You are really starting to piss me off.

It is not in any way a strawman. Nobody proves everything they say. "Proving" this is likely impossible. It is certainly beyond the scope of a post on an internet forum.

But if you want, try reading "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. I balanced approach that does nothing to understate the great risks to the earth posed by China joining the developed world, without blaming them for a desire to do so.

The fact is that the demand on the environment is a product of the number of people x the average consumption per person.

It is pretty reasonable to limit population growth, thus limiting the the demand on the environment.

It is not reasonable to tell people they must live without electricty, potable water, and healthcare.

And I doubt people in Japan or Canada are lining up to give their resources away.

Like it or not, the third world is catching up.

We must control global population.

It seems to me that proper management of resources can absorb a larger population. Modern Japan is an ideal example.

Absolutely correct.

As for China tackling this hard, please describe. Are you refering to the barely enforced single-child policy, in a country that still has a rapidly rising population despite it?

China's population growth is far lower than India, Pakistan, and many other third world and developing countries. Their policies are draconion, and selectively enforced, but they are working.

As far as a reasonable approach - I would suggest that China look after its own. Show me how China's environmental problems are hurting the West?

My ignorance? Please!

I am a Westerner. I am not anti-West, not anti-American. I am opposed to Bush's foreign policies, and in particular, outraged that he pandered to Christian fundamentalists and withdrew funding for organizations that so much as mentioned birth control as part of their programs.

What is the point of the article, other than hate and fear mongering? What does it suggest we DO?

I do not need to support everything I say. You know what? You don't.

As far as the steel issue, this was in an article I read about 1.5 years ago, in a trade journal. When the construction industry in North America was facing huge steel shortages and cost increases. Sorry, I don't have links for every magazine article I read.

Does China complain about US oil exploration in the Alaskan Nature Preserve, or cyanide leaching from abandoned mines that were not properly decommisioned?

What is your solution? Nuke Beijing? Trade embargo?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Don't you have students to bore?

Aren't you missing your remedial English class?

[The Mad Viking]

China is 164th in the world in Birth Rate.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2054rank.html

USA is 157th.

[DinoDoc]

I find it somewhat strange that even without UR entering the thread we seem to be continually bogged down by people stealing his usual line "LOOK AT THE US! IGNORE CHINA (even though it is the topic of the thread)." Why does that happen so often?

[Japher]

It's the American Way

[DinoDoc]

heh. I forgot UR already posted here.

[Kuciwalker]

I agree with the OP, but MOBIUS posted it, and there's nothing anti-American in it, so it could be a trick

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I agree with the OP, but MOBIUS posted it, and there's nothing anti-American in it, so it could be a trick

[Kuciwalker]

[BlackCat]

Maybe it was those university ladies tennis and basketball teams he drove to Southampton that has captured him and now is impersonating him