Retitled: Modern philosophers are full of it!

[Kuciwalker]

There's pretty much nothing today that computers aren't integrated with...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher


Because that's a bull**** request. It's not something I can do, not because it's not true, but because it's impossible for me to argue it to someone who doesn't understand the fundamentals of the modern world.

You deal with the simpler, low-level aspects of life. If you look at life from a bigger scale, or appreciate the direction the world is heading in, it's very hard to dmiss computers and the internet as the important inventions that they are.

And I would reckon that somebody whose profession is studying computers and translating that into use in society would have more of an idea of how computers affect society than a bean counter working for a city.

Oh, I see. So in the end you lack the intelletual heft or integrity to even try.

At least we have arrived at an end, that end being you are too chicken**** to back up your claims.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
There's pretty much nothing today that computers aren't integrated with...

And? Just like cars, most of these things could exist without them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
Oh, I see. So in the end you lack the intelletual heft or integrity to even try.

Or rather, I have the intellectual heft and integrity to know arguing with someone who calls databases "dadabases" and makes perhaps the most inane, lifeless trolls on this board is a waste of time.

At least we have arrived at an end, that end being you are too chicken**** to back up your claims.

The fact that you even ask someone to waste time formally making an argument about why computers are important or why computers are revolutionizing the modern world is more than enough evidence to dismiss your counter-claims as rhetoric from a simpleton who thinks he's something more. If you don't understand the importance of computers and the catalyst they are for society, there is no point trying to drill that into your head.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
And? Just like cars, most of these things could exist without them.

So why are they in cars if they're useless?

Let's take, for example, stability control on modern vehicles that dramatically decrease skidding and sliding out of control. How do those work without computers?

How about smart airbags that deploy only in situations where they are beneficial? How do those work without computers?

How about the modern stock market? How can that work without computers?

How about modern banking systems? How can they work in any kind of reasonably efficient manners without computers?

How about the global telecommunications market? How can those work without computers?

[Kuciwalker]

How about the payroll system of any company in the US?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Asher

So why are they in cars if they're useless?

Let's take, for example, stability control on modern vehicles that dramatically decrease skidding and sliding out of control. How do those work without computers?

How about smart airbags that deploy only in situations where they are beneficial? How do those work without computers?

How about the modern stock market? How can that work without computers?

How about modern banking systems? How can they work in any kind of reasonably efficient manners without computers?

How about the global telecommunications market? How can those work without computers?

Blah blah, blah chiken****. HOw are any of those things as fundemantal to the lives of human beings as you claim?

Because, you know what there were cars before computers, international banking systems before computers, international trade before computers, and a stock market without computers.

So bubble boy, how does the "modern banking system" make the lives of your average individual fundamentally different from the lives they would have had the 1950's Banking system continued and evolved sans computers? Or even not evolved at all and simply remained the same?

BUt I doubt you will have the guts to tackle such a simple question, chicken****.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
How about the payroll system of any company in the US?

but of course no one got paid by payroll before computers came along. Employees had to go the company money tree and pick out their pay.....

[Kuciwalker]

It's drastically more efficient now.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
Blah blah, blah chiken****. HOw are any of those things as fundemantal to the lives of human beings as you claim?
...
BUt I doubt you will have the guts to tackle such a simple question, chicken****.

It's ironic because I gave you a bunch of very simple questions that you know there is no answer to, and responded "blah blah blah".

If computers are so trivial to be not necessary in today's world, why are they everywhere?

Yet another simple question for you to fuddle your way around with.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
Blah blah, blah chiken****. HOw are any of those things as fundemantal to the lives of human beings as you claim?

Because, you know what there were cars before computers, international banking systems before computers, international trade before computers, and a stock market without computers.

And it magnified them a thousandfold. Not to mention that all practical aviation is due to computers.

So bubble boy, how does the "modern banking system" make the lives of your average individual fundamentally different from the lives they would have had the 1950's Banking system continued and evolved sans computers? Or even not evolved at all and simply remained the same?

Ever heard of the "credit card"?

[KrazyHorse]

If GePap wants a difference in kind, all he has to do is look at my life.

I get up in the morning and check the weather on my home computer. I take a shower, get dressed and drive to work. On my way there I listen to the radio or some CDs. When I get in I check my email for correspondence from my thesis advisor or other members of my research group. Then I check arxiv.org for any new research papers from that day. The existence of a pre-print database for academic papers has significantly increased the pace and the interconnected, international nature of scientific research (it used to take ~3 months from completion until the scientific community could read your paper). I then do some work. This tends to be semi-analytical in nature; I create a model, derive some of its behaviour using pen and paper, then create a numerical simulation to muscle out the actual numbers (which are crucial for application to the measurement of cosmological constants and thus can confirm or deny certain cosmological models). Throughout this, I am listening to music on my MP3 player. At some point during the day I receive calls on my cell phone from friends, relatives, or my fiancée. She works in a hospital in Montreal planning radiation treatments for cancer patients, calibrating medical equipment, doing research into new treatments, etc. At the end of the day I drive home. I'm out of groceries, so I go to the supermarket and pay for my purchases with a credit card. I throw the groceries into the cupboard, and watch a movie. I go upstairs and **** around on the internet for a couple of hours. I then read for a while and go to sleep.

My life is virtually unrecognizable to anybody who lived in the 50s.

[Kuciwalker]

But how is any of that different? You could do all of that before! Just slower.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It's drastically more efficient now.

NO **** sherlock.

SO, is the increase in efficiency been so great a quantitative change that it has become a qualitative change, changing the relation between, say an employee and the company payroll system?

Or, has the changes in automobiles been so great as to make the experience of having a car now fundamentally different from having a car in 1970?

As I said before, THIS IS THE QUESTION! Have the quantitative improvements made by computers been so great as to mean a qualitative change in the use of things, or the relation between people and systems?

Yes/No, explain.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
But how is any of that different? You could do all of that before! Just slower.

Indeed. After all, the approximately 3 hours of machine time I use every day running simulations represent only slightly more than the sum total of calculations done in all of human history prior to 1960.