Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Senate passes bill limiting detainee treatment

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Senate passes bill limiting detainee treatment

    90-9 as well!! I have a feeling that Bush's approval ratings made it less difficult for Republican Senators to vote with their conscience.

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Setting up a possible veto showdown with the White House, the Senate voted overwhelmingly for an amendment to a Pentagon spending bill that sets standards for the treatment of prisoners in U.S. military custody.

    The measure, sponsored by Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, would require American troops to follow interrogation standards set in the Army Field Manual and bar "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" of prisoners in U.S. custody.

    On Wednesday night, senators voted 90-9 to include the provision to the $440 billion Defense Department spending bill now wending its way through Congress.


    Earlier, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said President Bush would likely veto the defense spending bill if McCain's language were included, calling the amendment "unnecessary and duplicative."

    "If it's presented, then there would be a recommendation of a veto, I believe," McClellan said.

    McClellan said existing law already prohibits the mistreatment of prisoners in American custody, and the amendment "would limit the president's ability as commander-in-chief to effectively carry out the war on terrorism."

    If Bush does veto the bill, it would be his first veto during nearly five years in office.

    Arguing for his amendment, McCain, a former Navy pilot who spent more than five years in a North Vietnamese prison camp, said "our troops are not served by ambiguity."

    "We demanded intelligence without ever clearly telling our troops what was permitted and what was forbidden. And then, when things went wrong, we blamed them and we punished them. We have to do better than that," he said.

    McCain said an officer in the 82nd Airborne Division, Capt. Ian Fishback, urged his office to push for clear guidelines for the treatment of prisoners after unsuccessfully attempting to get answers from his superiors for 17 months.

    McCain, a former GOP presidential contender, said he was willing to consider "technical changes" in the amendment -- "as long as those changes are technical, truly." He warned that his proposal could be removed when senators and House members try to reconcile their versions of the defense bill, and urged supporters to keep up the pressure on lawmakers.

    "The image of the United States was very badly harmed by the pictures of prisoner abuse. We have to send a message to the world that we will not ever allow such kind of treatment to be repeated," he said.

    In a letter to McCain, published last week in The Washington Post, Fishback stated that he and troops under his command witnessed "death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure to elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage-taking, stripping, sleep deprivation and degrading treatment" of prisoners in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Allegations that Americans have tortured prisoners have dogged the Bush administration since April 2004, when graphic photographs of Army reservists mistreating prisoners at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad became public. Nine low-ranking soldiers were convicted or pleaded guilty in the Abu Ghraib scandal and their commander was demoted, but Pentagon investigators cleared higher-ranking officers of any wrongdoing.

    McCain said Wednesday that intelligence is needed to fight terrorism, but "the intelligence we collect must be reliable and acquired humanely, under clear standards understood by all our fighting men and women." Torturing prisoners not only yields unreliable answers, but also endangers captured U.S. troops and allows "the cruel actions of a few to darken the reputation of our country in the eyes of millions," he said.

    "The enemy we fight has no respect for human life or human rights. They don't deserve our sympathy," he said. "But this isn't about who they are. This is about who we are. These are the values that distinguish us from our enemies."

    He bristled at remarks by his Republican colleague, Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama, questioning Fishback's account. Sessions also called it "sort of odd" that Fishback refused to disclose the names of sergeants in his unit who reported similar conduct.

    "Captain Fishback is a noble, brave young American," McCain said. "He does not deserve to be disparaged on the floor of this Senate by any senator, and the senator from Alabama owes him an abject and deep apology."

    Sessions said the McCain amendment was unnecessary, since those responsible for the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib "are being held to account." He said he did not believe he questioned Fishback's integrity, and he said senators who questioned whether abuses were sanctioned by top officers or the Pentagon should consider an apology.

    "To suggest to the world that we have as systemic pattern of abuse in the military is not true," he said.


    The funniest part is the White House saying this amendment is uncessary and duplicative because the law is already on the books and then saying that it would hinder the President's ability to carry out the War on Terror! If it's already on the books, how is it hindering the President? What, by reminding him he has to follow the law?
    Last edited by Imran Siddiqui; October 6, 2005, 09:30.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

  • #2
    It is the definition of cruel and unusual that has always been the problem, not the lack of law.
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

    Comment


    • #3
      Perhaps... but 'degrading' treatment seems to put a wrench in a lot of the detainment tactics.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • #4
        I would agree, but again it is all subjective.

        I bet what I find degrading or unusual is far less than you. Then again, how can you degrade a terrorist?
        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

        Comment


        • #5
          Then again, how can you degrade a terrorist?


          Do you have to ask? Most of the borderline torture stuff is degrading, for sure.
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • #6
            It was a veiled half joke, as there is little you can do to a terrorist to degrade him any lower than he already is.
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

            Comment


            • #7
              It does seem like a PR move. On what basis were the current laws considered inefficent at meeting thier purpose that a new one saying the samething was needed?
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

              Comment


              • #8
                If its the same as the laws on the books, why veto it?
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #9
                  From the NY Times:



                  supporters said would clarify a jumble of conflicting standards and cast a new spotlight on the treatment of detainees at American prisons in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba. "Confusion about the rules results in abuses in the field," said Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican and the measure's main sponsor. "We need a clear, consistent standard."


                  This week, White House officials not only pressured Mr. McCain to modify his measure, but also approached sympathetic Senate Republicans to work against the amendment.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    General feeling: Good, about time this blot on america's 'we stand for freedom and democracy' self image was given due concern.
                    Now lets see if our(british) politicians can show the spine and resolve your senators have, and look at our draconian 'anti-terror' laws

                    Still in the wider eyes of the world its probably too little too late - the damage has already been done. But overall very positive and your government deserves a

                    Go real freedom and democracy i say
                    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

                    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                      If its the same as the laws on the books, why veto it?
                      Why ask me? Seems like a wierd thing to put in and a wierd thing to pitch a fit over. I highly doubt that any of the "conflicting standards" mentioned in your NYT blurb allowed for any of the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why ask me? Seems like a wierd thing to put in and a wierd thing to pitch a fit over. I highly doubt that any of the "conflicting standards" mentioned in your NYT blurb allowed for any of the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.


                        I believe they are focusing on Gitmo... and I think that is why the Administration is pitching fit. If it was the same as existing laws, people would just let it through, I'd think (there are plenty of redundant statements in the law, one more won't kill it).
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Does anyone still not believe that McCain would have made a better President then Bush dispite the constant attacks on him from the religious right or Limbaughs name calling (calling him McCainiac) for wanting to create real campaign finance reform and end torture? The religious right didn't support McCain because they thought (correctly) that Bush was more fundimentalist while the corporate lobbyists liked how Bush could always be bought with enough money no matter how outlandish the policy. McCain is actually a man who has a few principles and is capable of thinking for himself unlike Bush who seems to believe what ever Rove or Cheney tell him.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oerdin
                            Does anyone still not believe that McCain would have made a better President then Bush dispite the constant attacks on him from the religious right or Limbaughs name calling (calling him McCainiac) for wanting to create real campaign finance reform and end torture?
                            No.
                            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                              If its the same as the laws on the books, why veto it?
                              There will be no vetoing it now, 90-9. I understand Bush did threaten to veto but his own people joined the Democrats in agreeing that the torture business had to stop. Bush has always been a little man in a very big office who's unfit for the job. His giving a wink and a nud to torture proves that if nothing else.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X