Do you want Turkey in the EU?

[chequita guevara]

And Iraq and Syria, but that vast majority (75%) of it is occupied by Turkey.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And Iraq and Syria, but that vast majority (75%) of it is occupied by Turkey.

http://www.bamjam.net/Iran/Kurdistan.html

[chequita guevara]

Smartass

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I'd disagree with any definition of the EU as a Christian cultural club. As a secular democrat, I see Europe's core values coming from enlightened and democratic traditions rather than religious ones.

Me too.

So, Turkey can qualify with its modern secular democratic traditions, but the two other likely Islamic Balkan states of the future wouldn't. Ayatollah Ashdown's Islamic Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina can stay out for a start (pop : majority non-Muslim), as can the Mafioso-Slaver-Terrorist Republic of Kosova (pop: 100% pure Shqiptar).

I doubt that either Bosnia or Kosovo are all that religious.

As for Turkey - it has a pretty secular history and from what I read the party in power today is akin to Christian-Democrats in Europe, ie. religious but not fundamentalist. Army has supposedly backed away from politics. I liked the showing of the middle finger to the Americans regarding Iraq the Turkish parliament did.

However, as a casual observer, I can't know what the average Turk thinks. Maybe they would want a religious state, if Turkish elites permitted? Ancyrean will probably roll his eyes , but it's a legitimate question. A system where elites want one thing and a majority of people another is not sustainable in the long run, even if it seems stable now.

[KrazyHorse]

I don't know if the EU is ready to have an international border with Iraq, Iran and Syria.

I also don't know if they want to have their potentially largest member state (probably in the next 10-15 years) also be the poorest (or close to it)

Or for that state to also be the one in which the military is still an outside force that is considered at election time

[Ecthy]

When was Kurdistan ever an independant nation state? Exactly, so "stopping occupation" is bull****.

Should Germany nuked until we stop occupying the land of the Sorbs?

Should Russia stop occupying Chechnya?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Should Russia stop occupying Chechnya?

Yes.

[Ecthy]

And what would the reaction among the more militant parts in other "occupied" nations be? Two wrongs don't make a right

[Ecthy]

Stability over particularist and terrorism-encouraging "freedom" tendencies

[Odin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Turkey should get in, but only after it stops occupying Cyprus and Kurdistan.

[VetLegion]

This poll is slanted very much by UKians and USAians who all voted Yes

Also paiktis did you notice that all the negative words you used are German (you misspelled Verboten).

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by VetLegion
This poll is slanted very much by UKians and USAians

It was expected since we are after all in an english speaking forum

Also paiktis did you notice that all the negative words you used are German (you misspelled Verboten).

It was meant to make a little joke in the poll options. Nothing more

[laurentius]

No,

but the poll is overly simplistic.

[Ecthy]

This is a private thread on a private site lau, if you don't like it make a new poll or leave

[VetLegion]

New development:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4305500.stm

EU reaches deal on Turkey talks

Austria had reservations about full Turkish membership
EU foreign ministers have reached a deal clearing the way for accession talks with Turkey to begin, EU officials have said.

Austria had demanded the EU keep open the option of "privileged partnership" for Turkey, as well as full membership.

But officials said after intense negotiations in Luxembourg that Austria had fallen into line.

The new document has been sent to the Turkish government, which is considering whether to accept it.

The BBC's Emma Jane Kirby at the talks in Luxembourg says everyone there is now waiting keenly for Ankara's response.

"The government is studying the text and its decision will be made after a period of close evaluation in Ankara," a Turkish official in Luxembourg said.

Earlier EU foreign ministers put back a ceremony marking the scheduled official opening of Turkey's EU membership talks, due to be held at 1700 (1500 BST), as the Turkish delegation was still waiting in Ankara for news of a breakthrough.

Diplomats from Britain, which holds the rotating EU presidency and has been chairing negotiations, said they still hoped talks could begin on Monday.

Before the breakthrough, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told Turkey's ruling AK party he would not compromise on the conditions for starting talks.

"We have protected and are continuing to protect our stance, which is appropriate to Turkey's national interests and political principles," he said, to loud applause.

'Listening to people'

Monday saw Austria put under intense pressure, as it, alone among the EU's 25 members, demanded that the draft framework for entry talks should be rewritten.


AUSTRIA'S PROBLEM
Public still coming to terms with last EU enlargement
Tabloid newspaper campaign against Turkish membership
Governing People's Party feeling vulnerable and isolated
Element of xenophobia and Islamophobia
Memory of Ottoman sieges of Vienna


Austrian sticking point

The EU's member states must unanimously approve a negotiating mandate before talks can begin.

Austrian Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik said her country was "listening to the people" by questioning full membership for Turkey.

"There are moments when we have to say that such fundamental things are at stake that a compromise is not possible," she warned.

"We will not let anyone intimidate us and we do not feel isolated," she insisted, but after a series of meetings with UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, it appeared she gave way.

'Theological divide'

There is deep popular opposition in Austria and other European countries to Turkey's accession to the EU, with sceptics citing Turkey's size, poverty, and main religion - Islam - as reasons to keep it at a distance.

Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel has said he wants the EU to acknowledge popular concerns over its expansion.

But Mr Straw warned of a "theological-political divide, which could open up even further down the boundary between so-called Christian-heritage states and those of Islamic heritage".

If started, the Turkish negotiations are expected to take about 10 years.

Very good for Turkey and EU I'd say.


Anyone wants to offer an explanation about what exactly were Austrians trying to do there? It looks like a huge political embarassment now.