iTunes and classical music

[Datajack Franit]

not to mention Allelujah

[Boris Godunov]

I don't see anything "old-fashioned" about Furtwangler or Weingartner, just old. They infuriate traditionalists, after all. I love hearing rants from "purists" about they are wrong to inject so much of themselves into their performances. Me, that's what I like--within limits, of course (I'm sneering at YOU, Tennstedt!).

There's not really a question of recordings being "old-fashioned" or not, it's a question of personal taste wrt how much conducters make a work their own. Some people are literalists who want to hear the performances as free from the personal biases of then conductor as possible, while some prefer to hear more "in the moment" performances wherein the conductor has much more leeway for performance eccentricities.

I certainly lean much more towards the latter, so the label "old-fashioned" is odd. The Szell Beethoven is the most "traditional" of performances, which is why I would easily recommend them as an introductory complete set. But they're not my favorite by far.

I can't speak to the Hanoncourt Beethoven recordings (but I've not been impressed with what recordings of his I have heard), but in general, I'm not big into the "period performances." I think far too many conductors use this as an excuse for dry, stuffy readings (Gardiner in particular). I think Beethoven and Mozart can be played by orchestras like the BPO and still be lively and lithe, not bloated. It just takes a terrific conductor to do so.

And then you get the extra thrill of the higher frequency of the tuning.

[Agathon]

I disagree. The most interesting Beethoven is being done by the period guys. Bloated big orchestra versions of the symphonies are OK, but they are most definitely old fashioned.

I like the period performances of Mozart. Too many modern ensembles just romanticize it and drag it out for cheap thrills.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by nostromo
Just noticed your sig... He really wrote that? I hope he was trying to pull KH's leg, otherwise it would be incredibly lame...

One troll deserves another.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


he has never actually seen science really be taught

the labs for nonscience students are basically training monkeys..

that isn't the fault of science, rather that of the people trying to learn too much in a semester

JM

At undergraduate level it is like training monkeys. I guess graduates do more interesting things, but undergrad science is simply dull.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Agathon
I disagree. The most interesting Beethoven is being done by the period guys. Bloated big orchestra versions of the symphonies are OK, but they are most definitely old fashioned.

Big orchestra != bloat, necessarily. That was my point, that truly great conductors can bring a litheness to a big orchestra. To me, that's the amazing thing about Furtwangler...here's the BPO, and you can hear every single musical line, all the intricate counterpoint, and it just sings.

[Agathon]

Big orchestra != bloat, necessarily. That was my point, that truly great conductors can bring a litheness to a big orchestra. To me, that's the amazing thing about Furtwangler...here's the BPO, and you can hear every single musical line, all the intricate counterpoint, and it just sings.

There however are physical limits to what you can do. I admire Furtwangler as you do. On the other hand I guess I'm just older. I spent years at home listening to "traditional" performances of the symphonies, yet hearing Harnoncourt's set (I used to borrow it from the university library before it came down in price) I was amazed at how the period approach (he uses modern strings, but the rest are authentic and the orchestra is small) revitalized the music and made it seem fresh and vibrant. It was also very disconcerting at first, but then I guess Beethoven is supposed to be disconcerting.

The period approach made me appreciate nos 1, 2, 4 and 8 much more than I had previously. Even in Gardiner's set, those are all superb (as is his 7th). If I was looking for words to describe the difference, I would use "keen", "incisive", and "transparent".

I'm not a period snob. I think that one of the best things about the movement is the way it has made those using modern instruments rethink their approach.

If it has made a difference to the music of Beethoven and Mozart, it has made an even bigger difference to my appreciation of Bach's music. I simply cannot stand those huge versions of his works (like Solti's). Gardiner and company are in every way preferable for me.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Agathon


At undergraduate level it is like training monkeys. I guess graduates do more interesting things, but undergrad science is simply dull.

once more.. I don't think you know what you are talking about

advanced level, undergraduate labs, had me and my classmates designing experiments and doing stuff with superconductors, optical chaos, and the like..

there were even ones that were more layed back, like in electronics I knew people who designed and made a breathilizer

Jon Miller

[Agathon]

once more.. I don't think you know what you are talking about

advanced level, undergraduate labs, had me and my classmates designing experiments and doing stuff with superconductors, optical chaos, and the like..

there were even ones that were more layed back, like in electronics I knew people who designed and made a breathilizer

I know. I have had a lot of friends who did science. I don't think it is that rigorous. Sure there's a lot of work, but there is little creative freedom involved.

[Jon Miller]

umm, yes there is

or at least, there can be, as there was in my undergrad (some advance classes)

JM