The UN: Of Wiener Dogs and Banana Peels...

[C0ckney]

there's a lot that makes the UN a joke at the moment. the massive corruption, at the highest levels and the inability to get much of anything done for starters...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by C0ckney
there's a lot that makes the UN a joke at the moment. the massive corruption, at the highest levels and the inability to get much of anything done for starters...

Those are actually serious and worthy arguments. Much more than complaining about Arroyo's coconut oil

The UN is a complete joke for military matters. It cannot prevent a powerful country from attacking whoever it wants, and it can't even effectively manage a UN intervention force in some unstable area. The US would do better by giving mandates to countries/alliances to maintain order in such areas (which is what it's increasingly doing).

However, the UN can play a role if the decision-making process gets streamlined. It can be of considerable help toward countries transiting toward democracy (it has the ability to provide many of those small things that help establish a democracy).
It can help prevent the rise of warlords by organising international embargoes on resources drenched with blood (for example, the UN has recently done quite some work to hinder the trade of "conflict diamonds", i.e. the Congo diamonds from the areas under conflict).
It can help with the transfer of technologies that can dramatically help with the living conditions of destitute areas, like with medicine for example.


There is no doubt the UN has much of hot air. And this is the reason why the UN reform is so essential: so that the UN can focus on the things it can do, and so that it may finally do it well.

[laurentius]

Whats wrong with coconut oil? The Swedes have Volvos that run on ethanol already. Soy and Coconut oil are renewing energy sources anyway so why not use them?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Spiffor
The UN is a complete joke for military matters.

That's the way it is set up. Unless some rich countries wish to give UN a lot more $$$ so it can maintain its own armed force.

Originally posted by Spiffor
It cannot prevent a powerful country from attacking whoever it wants

Of course not. But the UN is not set up to be a global police AFAIK, but an international forum.

Originally posted by Spiffor
The US would do better by giving mandates to countries/alliances to maintain order in such areas (which is what it's increasingly doing).

You mean Iraq? Now the Norwegians are leaving, too.

Originally posted by Spiffor
There is no doubt the UN has much of hot air.

Well, duh, that's because it's a forum. Have you found a forum that isn't much of hot air?

You forgot that the UN has a number of other organisations such as FAO and WHO that do some real work.

[Edan]

Re: The UN: Of Wiener Dogs and Banana Peels...

Chavez suggested moving the United Nations headquarters to Jerusalem because President Bush attacked Saddam Hussein's government without U.N. authorization.

Wouldn't every country in the UN have to officialy recognize Israel in order to send a delegate?

[Tassadar500]

The United Nations should move to Jerusalem.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
That's the way it is set up. Unless some rich countries wish to give UN a lot more $$$ so it can maintain its own armed force.

It's not only about money, but it's really about power. The UN isn't a separate country having a right to recruit people. It depends on the troops provided by the member states, which means that the dependency is not only economical, but political as well.
The world's countries have very different ideas about world peace. This is why the UN can only extremely rarely gather international troops in an effective fashion.

For a UN military to work effectively, the world should have a near-consensus about world peace issues. The Iraq war has shown quite clearly that it is not the case.

Of course not. But the UN is not set up to be a global police AFAIK, but an international forum.

Well, originally, the UN was supposed to have an enforcement ability, in order not to be the joke that was the Society of Nations. Unfortunately, this idea was completely lost to the power games played by the great powers and the former colonial powers.

You mean Iraq? Now the Norwegians are leaving, too.

The UN never gave any mandate to the Yanks for the Iraq war (the one under GWB at least). However, it gave mandate to Australia in East Timor, and it gave mandate ot France in Ivory Coast. East Timor was a stunning success, and the mission in Ivory Coast is being effective (read: they aren't slaughtering each other despite the pressure)

Well, duh, that's because it's a forum. Have you found a forum that isn't much of hot air?

Well, it's a forum that has so many agencies that it could get things done. I'm not entirely against hot air in the UN (every place where people speak as equals is bound to have some hot air anyway). But I'd like the processes to focus a bit less about talks, and a bit more about doing what is to be done. The UN has shown that it can do things when it wants (Again, East Timor really is a poster child). If the process was streamlines, the "do" part of the UN would be much more significant.

You forgot that the UN has a number of other organisations such as FAO and WHO that do some real work.

I didn't. I support the UN, and I know that it does have things that do a patient work (heck, I'm currently working on the obscure topic of Women's rights in Bulgaria, and the UN has been useful there as well). However, these organisations most often lack a clear political impetus, something that could happen more often if the UN didn't function in such a byzantine fashion.

[Dinner]

Arroyo's idea of increased use of ethanol is actually pretty main stream. E85 (a mix of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline) is sold in most states now but is centered, not surprisingly, in the midwest. Most states use a blend of 10%-15% ethanol in order to oxigenate gasoline and make it burn cleaner though there is a slight drop in miliage. To burn E85 automakers have to use more corrosion resistant engine materials which would add around $200-$300 per vehicle. Still, there are currently about 1 million cars on the road capable of running on E85 and Ford has made it a goal to have all of its cars E85 compliant by 2010. That's good news since E85 costs about a dollar less per gallon compared to gasoline.

tuttle: Coconut oil is just another version of biodiesel. In Europe biodiesel is actually sold in commercial quantities.

[Mr. Harley]

Actually, have the UN move it's headquarters to Jerusalem and it become an international city. Something along the lines of the Vatican maybe. That way Israel can move it's capital back to Tel Aviv, the Palestinians cannot put their capital there, and it would solve the issue of whose city it is anyway. Plus all those people pontificating about terrorism could have car bombs in their backyard.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
and it gave mandate ot France in Ivory Coast.

eh?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Actually, have the UN move it's headquarters to Jerusalem and it become an international city. Something along the lines of the Vatican maybe. That way Israel can move it's capital back to Tel Aviv, the Palestinians cannot put their capital there, and it would solve the issue of whose city it is anyway. Plus all those people pontificating about terrorism could have car bombs in their backyard.

try comparing the population figures of the Vatican to those of Jerusalem. and vatican is not international, its under the control of the RCC.

Id rather give half the city of Jerusalem to the Palestinians, and let Abbas set up his capital in his half, then give one hectare to the UN, or to people who crave the idea of taking the historical capital of a great people into a symbol of insipid internationalism.

[Sandman]

I agree with LOTM, although for the opposite reason. Why should noble internationalism be sullied by a city that's the focus of petty, pointless conflicts? It's like putting the headquarters of the World Trade Organisation in North Korea.

[Az]

Why pointless? This conflict definetly has a point!

[Barnabas]

Chavez is the greatest Statesman of our times, Bush wishes he were half the man Chavez is.

[Richelieu]

You're not even getting a DL dance. That's got to hurt.