Is the Pope the successor of the Roman Emperors? Vatican city = Roman Empire?

[Patroklos]

f*** ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fk) Vulgar Slang
v. f****, f***·ing, f**s
v. tr.
To have sexual intercourse with.
To take advantage of, betray, or cheat; victimize.
Used in the imperative as a signal of angry dismissal.

v. intr.
To engage in sexual intercourse.
To act wastefully or foolishly.
To interfere; meddle. Often used with with.

n.
An act of sexual intercourse.
A partner in sexual intercourse.
A despised person.
Used as an intensive: What the **** did you do that for?

interj.
Used to express extreme displeasure.

Phrasal Verbs:
f*** off
Used in the imperative as a signal of angry dismissal.
To spend time idly.
To masturbate.
f*** over
To treat unfairly; take advantage of.
f*** up
To make a mistake; bungle something.
To act carelessly, foolishly, or incorrectly.
To cause to be intoxicated.

Apparently Dictionary.com says I should be more offended by squaw than f*** in any of its myraid forms.

Yes Master.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I thought Wilma Mankiller (sic) is the chief of the Cherokee Nation.


Challenge - demonstrate that Wilma Mankiller is in fact the heir to the Roman Empire.

Wilma Mankiller is Chief of the Cherokee Nation;

The Song "Indian Reservation," containing the chorus "Cherokee People/Cherokee Tribe/So proud to live/So proud to die" was performed by Paul Revere and the Raiders

Paul Revere and the Raiders once appeared on an episode of "Batman," in the episode where the Penguin runs for mayor of Gotham City;

The Penguin on Batman was played by Burgess Meredith;

Burgess Meredith appeared in Day of the Locust with Donald Sutherland;

And Donald Sutherland appeared in JFK with Kevin Bacon!

Um, what was the question again?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
If the Ottomans were heir to Rome because they conquered the eastern half of the empire, then what about the German tribes that conquered the western half? Would that mean the holy roman empire's claim would be legit?

If, when the Germans conquered Rome, they had made that claim and had controled the territory of the Western Roman Empire, then yes. The first HRE was established after the Franks saved the Patrium from the Langobards who had invaded most of Italy in the 8th Century. In the year 800, Pope Leo III crowned Charlemange Holy Roman Emperor. The ERE never recognized the title, and when Charlemange offered to marry the ruling Emperess in Constantinople, she was deposed.

The Holy Roman Empire was famously described by Voltaire as "neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire".

[Immortal Wombat]

Voltaire also noted that "a witty saying proves nothing".

[chequita guevara]

The Romans never existed.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


Wilma Mankiller is Chief of the Cherokee Nation;

The Song "Indian Reservation," containing the chorus "Cherokee People/Cherokee Tribe/So proud to live/So proud to die" was performed by Paul Revere and the Raiders

Paul Revere and the Raiders once appeared on an episode of "Batman," in the episode where the Penguin runs for mayor of Gotham City;

The Penguin on Batman was played by Burgess Meredith;

Burgess Meredith appeared in Day of the Locust with Donald Sutherland;

And Donald Sutherland appeared in JFK with Kevin Bacon!

Um, what was the question again?

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Romans never existed.

There is no spoon.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


The Holy Roman Empire was famously described by Voltaire as "neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire".

He was wrong on several counts, and was not a terribly good historian- but then he wasn't trying to be.

By his day the H.R.E. may not have been any of the categories listed, but at times in the past it had fulfilled the criteria, albeit not all at the same time, all the time...

His original quote is:

' Ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appele encore le saint empire romain n'etait en aucune maniere ni saint, ni romain, ni empire. '

Francois Marie-Arouet, 'Essai sur le moeurs et l'esprit des nations', lxx

It (roughly) translates as :

' This agglomeration which was called and still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman nor an empire in any way.'

If only he had addressed himself to Charlemagne's coronal declaration :

'Carolo Augusto, a Deo coronato, magno et pacifico, imperatori Romanorum, vita et victoria. '

Emperor Anastasius had also hailed Clovis as 'consul' and 'Augustus', and Merovingian coins showed Romulus and Remus, and Frankish civil boundaries just so happened to coincide with diocesan boundaries from the last days of the Western Roman Empire. No to mention the influence of Roman law on Salic law, and the legacy of Roman military traditions- hoisting the new Frankish king aloft on soldiers' shields- a Roman army acclamation.

[Az]

Man, I always love these threads because I learn a load of new information.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
The Roman Empire was an empire centered upon the city of Rome. When the imperial possessions in the west fragmented, leaving Rome as the center of a small ecclesiastic state then truly the Roman empire had died. The fact that some fragments persisted for a while doesn't change that fact.

By that definition, why didnt it die BEFORE the possessions in the West fragmented, when the capitol and center of gravity shifted east?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
The Roman Empire was an empire centered upon the city of Rome. When the imperial possessions in the west fragmented, leaving Rome as the center of a small ecclesiastic state then truly the Roman empire had died. The fact that some fragments persisted for a while doesn't change that fact.

Well the eastern part lasted for a milenium more. During all that time "Rome" in tiself came to mean nothing. The Romioi who gained their liberation after 400 years didn't know anything about "rome". "Rome meant nothing to them. They refered to them as Romioi and that meant that: they were christians and that they spoke greek. actually a version of alexandrine greek (the language of the evangelions)that derived from the attican dialect.
So rome as a toponym ceased to mean anything since long ago.
when the assorted barbarians took out western rome and ever since everyone wanted to be the "roman". but the truth was that only the east still was. all others were fake who wanted the reassurance of the name

[Bereta_Eder]

and the system of authority the east devised was perfect. that's why it lasted for 1.000 years more. byzantium is the longest lasting empire or one of them. the duality of authority emperor/aptriarch produced a system of governance so stable that was tried to be copied by the barbarians (the term just means not romans) and it was failed. and just as the west was burned like a phoenix it wwas rebirthed through its pitiful ashes, the east simply aged as an old lion untill it died too by a coup de grace. it didnt need to reform because it never collapsed so it turned rigid.

[Bereta_Eder]

that's a reason why i think "one europe" is crap btw. we're talking about two (and more) completely different histories/evolutions. im not against a unified europe but against a uniformity of history. or little tricks such as "things that unite europe" like in the eu constitution. which was failed now that i think about it.

[Barnabas]

crap, I thought I was innovative! someone else had the same thought as me.

I was yahoosearching for info on the attila pope leo meeting, and found this.

"the pope as esoteric roman emperor" in a blog

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/04/03/the-pope-as-esoteric-roman-emperor

btw, for the history buffs here, did leo meet attila or is it a myth?