Is the Pope the successor of the Roman Emperors? Vatican city = Roman Empire?

[Patroklos]

Is George Bush alos the cheif of the Cherokee nation?

Is Chirac the cheif of Gaul.

There is more to being the heir to an empire than simply occupying the same place.

[chequita guevara]

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Is George Bush alos the cheif of the Cherokee nation?

Is Chirac the cheif of Gaul.

There is more to being the heir to an empire than simply occupying the same place.

I thought Wilma Mankiller (sic) is the chief of the Cherokee Nation.


Challenge - demonstrate that Wilma Mankiller is in fact the heir to the Roman Empire.

[Patroklos]

She is a mear squa, ALL HAIL CHEIF BUSH!

[chequita guevara]

Squaw is a seriously racist word.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The Ottomans didn't install themselves at the head of an empire; they killed an empire, and ate it.

bastards

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
You keep throwing in a claim with no factual basis. Some of their contemporaries recognised them. Some did not.

Most, in fact, did not.

I've got plenty of factual basis. I've read enough material on the Ottomans to do a masters' thesis. I even, briefly considered learning Turkish so I could get my mitts on source material, except Ottoman Turkish isn't the same as modern Turkish, and that's pretty extreme for a hobby anyway.

Until the 1590s, no European country dared treat the Sultan as his equal, but always refered to him as his superior. The sole exception was the Pope, who continually called for holy war against the Ottomans, frequently leading to the misery of those who heeded the call. Even the Holy Roman Emperor defered diplomatically, despite the near constant warfare.

The Roman Empire fragmented into so many pieces that to claim any single group as their successor is a joke.

The last piece to die was the last group with any sort of real claim to the throne of Rome, and by the time they got swallowed that claim was already pure pretension.

What you keep forgetting is that even though the Emperor had little actual power, he had great moral authority and was recognized as being important, much like the Holy Roman Emperor. His "blessing" meant something to the various Balkan princes, and even Western Europe trembled when it fell. The Ottomans already had unfetted access back and forth across the Dardinelles.

When the city fell, many Europeans believed that had God abandoned them, some even believed that God favored Islam and converted.

quit reading english texts which are confirmed to be biased and enamourded with the barbarian tourks. amor sauvage of gays to barbarians.
happened always

[Bereta_Eder]

that goes to all your txts btw i just took one random sample

[Bereta_Eder]

and to answer the question. there is no successor. the closest one gets is the patriarch of constantinople. and modern greece (which should have been named Rome if the german philellinistes didnt convince us we were the descantancs of the ancient greeks)

[Saras]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It was an official tribute, which happened every year. The Krim were not all that independent of Constantinople.

Again, source please. I find it hard to believe the tribute was paid BECAUSE they were deemed heirs to Caesar. Most likely no one could be arsed to deal with their pesky incursions so sent some trinkets instead. Pls bear in mind the Commonwealth could have wiped the floor with Crimean khanate if they wanted to in XVI century. Probably had bigger fish to fry (Muscovy, mostly).

[Patroklos]

Squaw is a seriously racist word.

I can't help it if stupid people find a stupid word racist.

In any case, how is using the word "squaw" to descibe an Indian cheifs wife racist?

[Az]

I agree with KH.

[Heresson]

It was an official tribute, which happened every year. The Krim were not all that independent of Constantinople.

I'm not sure if it happened every year, and surely it was not an official tribute, at least not according to Polish terminology. I don't know how Khan treated it. Anyway, these were gifts to Crimea, not Turks directly. Crimea was officially a Turkish vassal, but it was pretty independent, sometimes in conflict with its masters.

That was the Seljik Sultanate of Rum. Sultan Beyezit I (the first Ottoman to claim the title of Sultan) claimed the Ottomans were the Ottoman Sultanate of Rum. He asked the Caliph in Cairo for recognition, but I don't know if they received it.

Actually, the first Ottoman to bear the title of sultan was Orhan.

It was different. But the Ottoman Emirate rose up out of ERE lands, not from Turkish controled territory. The army was half Greek, and it was . . . Orhan, I believe, who first married a Roman princess, Cantacuzenos' daughter.

The situation is similar to refering to the Safavid Empire as Persia, even though it was actually an Azerbaijani empire. Europe called them Persia.

No, it's different. Azers are of similar culture to Persians, and their state in Persia actually transformed into a Persian state. Persia today is a state of Persian language (though I've seen precise stats of languages in Iran and Azerbeycani is even more wide-spreaded than the biggest Iranic language) and of Muslim religion, which was accepted by nearly all Persians.

Turks and Byzantines had different religions, different cultures. Of course, Byzantines influenced Turkish ceremonial, Turkish architecture, Turkish administration etc, but the base on which Turkish culture formed was Muslim one, not Byzantine one.
Greek language was used (partially) by Roman administration in the East since the conquest up to "transformation" to Byzantium. Greek was the language of the final religion of the Romans. Christianity grew within the Empire. Both changes, of religion and of language, were internal and not forced from outside.
Byzantines, on the other hand, were conquered by a state of other religion and of other language.
Both this religion and this nationality were the greatest enemies of the Byzantine empire for last 800 and 400 years.

Originally posted by Bereta_Eder
and to answer the question. there is no successor. the closest one gets is the patriarch of constantinople. and modern greece (which should have been named Rome if the german philellinistes didnt convince us we were the descantancs of the ancient greeks)

I am Byzantine emperor in exile

[Bereta_Eder]

Tin Ypermacho stratigo ta nikitiIIIIIria

[Heresson]

When I come back from exile, I'll make You my mesadzon.
MarkG can be my parakoimomen, after some necessary changes...