Ukraine: The Death of the Orange Coalition

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My sense is that the corruption has been largely among Tymoshenkos opponents, notably the security minister, and Yushenkos son.

What are you basing this sense on?

Ukraine grew over 10% in 2004.? Are you sure? It's a "tigrish" growth rate not shown by other transitional economies.

12% in 2004, 10% in 2003.

Am I the only one who thinks that ally of that guy is superhot?

She's had plenty of face-lifts, so if it turns you on...

Why are you so obsessed with Ukraine?

I think it's because we were right and you were wrong.

The martyred pro-western government is corrupt as ****, as everyone who wasn't still living in the times of cold war (omfg he's pro-Russia and he's pro-western! let's support the pro-western candidate!) could see right from the start. Millionare Tymoshenko is one of the more corrupt people it has, I hope things turn around after this.

edited once

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Why are you so obsessed with Ukraine? Things aren't that good in Rusiastan, are they?

It's Russian Federation to your knowledge. And things here are WAY, WAY better.

I've read that Gary Kasparov says so and I trust him, being the best of the best.

OMG!!!
Do you know that he also is the proponent of so-called "neo-chronology" and believes that Egyptian pyramids have been build only several centuries ago and that entire human civilization counts no more than a thousand years or so? Not to mention that he sees himself as new president of Russia.

What a great source you have!

The fact he was a chess champion once, doesn't actually mean that he is not insane.
I heard in US of A they throw chess champions in jail on a regular basis (Bobby Fisher anyone?).
Fortunately Russian democracy didn't fall so low.

[Serb]

VJ
I guess our friends have never read the tape where Tymoshenko refers to Yushenko as "pimply", to Ukranian people as "biomass" and worries about her 180 millions for "proper" nationalization.

No-no-no she is so western, so liberal, so democratic and so f*cking HOT.

It doesn't mater she being in Interpol most wanted list. She only robbed Russia for a few hundreds of millions USD (and Ukraine when she worked for former Ukranian PM Lazarenko who is US jail 'cause of corruption), before she became a new PM.

So who cares?

They're only Russians after all, a f*cking untermenches who have no idea about true democracy.

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion
I've read that Gary Kasparov says so and I trust him, being the best of the best.

Ok, VetLegion, I believe I overreacted a bit. I'm sorry, but you have to understand me - bringing Kasparov on your side, it's was so damn funny. Like farting in the puddle (nevermind it's a Russian saying).

I think you never heard about new chronology of so-called academician Fomenko and his loyal follower Kasparov. Please take my advise and type in any search engine "Fomenko new chronology". You'll get some unregratable fun. This so-called academician Fomenko being recognised as the bullsh!ter of history by historians from all around the world. And his so-called theory considered by serious hisorians is no more than a pile of bullsh!t.
Just to save your time I did it for you. So let me introduce you the work of this so-called academician (PDF is required, but don't warry, it's English and weight about 230 Kb):

https://www.chronologia.org/1N00-EN-001-038.pdf

Since you download it, you might press CTRL+F and search for "Kasparov". Just to save your time, I've already made it. Enjoy the text:


In 1998, we were telephoned by World Chess Champion G. K. Kasparov. It turned out that he had read quite a few of our books, and, having compared the points we were making with his own concept of history, decided most of them were valid. He shared some of his ideas and observations with us, and we deemed some of them to be worthy of inclusion into our subsequent works (with references to G. K. Kasparov). Apart from that, G. K. Kasparov had made a few brilliant public addresses advocating the new chronology, one of them as a guest of Night Flight following in the footsteps of A.V. Podoinitsyn’s conversations with A. M.Maksimov. G. K. Kasparov relates some of his points in the preface to our Introduction to the New Chronology, 1999, Kraft Publishing... First and foremost, one has to mention the efforts of the world chess champion G. K. Kasparov in this respect, such as his public addresses on the issue and the articles he had written for a number of magazines in 1999-2001. In particular, he had organized a number of public disputes at the St. Petersburg University of Humanities. The years 2000-2001 have also been marked by the publication of such books as The True History of Russia and Multi-optional History by Alexander Goutz, a mathematician from Omsk (Serb: Yeah, yeah, we have freaks in my home city too), and N. I. Khodakovsky’s The Temporal Spiral. A. Boushkov’s The Russia That Never Was is also visibly influenced by our works. This list can be continued.

Curious why I've posted this?
Just read that God damn work! Just for your own fun!
To save your time I've selected a couple of lines from the contents, the essence of this so-called work. Enjoy:
Contents:


Blah-blah-blah...

A Global Falsification of History.


The problems in establishing a correct chronology of “ancient” Egypt


Blah-blah-blah...

The mysterious Renaissance epoch as a product of the Scaligerian chronology


Blah-blah-blah...

The radiocarbon datings of ancient, mediaeval, and modern specimens are scattered chaotically!!!

Blah-blah-blah...

Many “ancient astronomical observations”may have been theoretically calculated by late mediaeval astronomers and then included into the “ancient”
chronicles as “real observations”


Blah-blah-blah...

Which astronomical “observations of the ancients” could have been a result of late mediaeval theoretic calculations?

Blah-blah-blah...

The new dating of the astronomical horoscope as described in the Apocalypse



And of course the book starts with the OMG!!!:

A Global Falsification of History






So, the main idea of this "work" could be perfectly summarized by chapter 5 "Russia = Horde. Ottomans = Atamans" and Chapter 7 "A reconstruction of global history. The Khans of Novgorod = The Habsburgs. Miscellaneous information." (It's not my words it is the exact quote, just follow the link and check it)
The whole point is there was no Mongol invasion, only Russian invasion, Egyptian pyramids have been build a couple of centuries ago, and the same SH!T.

And Garry Kasparov is one of the adepts/followers/fanatics of this so-called "new chronology" theory (check beggining of my post or find it in that work by yourself).

So, back to topic, do you see now, why I laughted when you mentioned Kasparov in regard to events in Ukraine?
This guy has his own version of human history and sure has his own version of events in Ukraine, but why anyone in his straight mind should beleive him?

[Serb]

Ooops...forgot one thing:


HANDS OFF FROM BOBBY FISHER!!!


He is the true champion.

[VetLegion]

1. Thank you very much for the link. I am quite interested in history and will read it later with pleasure. Everything Great Kasparov says is worth checking out.

2. Kasparov is certainly crazy in his own way (he's the champion after all), but he is not dangerous. He has lived abroad and I believe him when he says he wants democracy for Russia
http://www.komitet2008.ru/english2.php

3. Putin is a strongman, and if Russia is going to love her strongmen it will never become as prosperous as the west.

4. VJ, can you provide me with your source on Ukraininan GDP growth?

5. The situation in Russia with regards to economy is not that great and Russia depends on Oil too much.

[VetLegion]

Btw., I wasn't one of the people supporting the Orange revolution. I didn't care what happens and thought Yulia Timoshenko is hot. Which she is, and I was right.

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion
1. Thank you very much for the link.

You're welcome, have fun.

I am quite interested in history and will read it later with pleasure.

Just bear in mind that that book actually is the anti-history.

Everything Great Kasparov says is worth checking out.

Weird logic. So according to your approach everything a great shoemaker says about healing people worth checking out? A doctor's speech about making shoes also worth to be checked out?
Why obvious fantasies (actually intended lies) of the great chess player about politics/history should worth more?

2. Kasparov is certainly crazy in his own way (he's the champion after all), but he is not dangerous. He has lived abroad and I believe him when he says he wants democracy for Russia
http://www.komitet2008.ru/english2.php

Thanks for a good laugh!
This guy certanly sees himself as new Tzar of Russia. This article contains so much BS. But one thing makes me scared. Hitler searched for mysterious in Tibet. Now this so-called Committee 2008 gather adepts of "new chronology" such as Kasparov on their side to grab the power. A pretty bad parallel, if you ask me, even considering that Committee 2008 is actually nothing and Kasparov himself is nothing in Russian politic. Their political support is about zero, an absolute zero.

3. Putin is a strongman, and if Russia is going to love her strongmen it will never become as prosperous as the west.

Weird logic again. So, Russia needs a weak man to become a prosperous as the west?

5. The situation in Russia with regards to economy is not that great and Russia depends on Oil too much.

Prove it. Compare Ukraine and Russia macroeconomic parameters. We depends on oil&gas? Fine. But it's OUR oil&gas and there is one little proble with Ukraine - she depends on OUR oil and gas. And not only that. She has no market except Russia. How often you see Ukranian goods in your EU stores? I bet you've never seen one. When you depend on someone, it's God damn stupid to spit on him. That's a harsh reality.

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Btw., I wasn't one of the people supporting the Orange revolution. I didn't care what happens and thought Yulia Timoshenko is hot. Which she is, and I was right.

Isn't she a bit old for you? She has a dauther who is going to marry a Scotish? British? rock musician.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Serb


You're welcome, have fun.


Just bear in mind that that book actually is the anti-history.

Don't worry, I'm careful about what I believe in. By the way, what is it with you Russians and crazy alternative theories? The theory of abiogenic oil is also from Russia, and I could probably find another one or two

Weird logic. So according to your approach everything a great shoemaker says about healing people worth checking out?

There is no school for politics. Anybody can and should comment it.

This guy certanly sees himself as new Tzar of Russia.

The anti-tzar. Putin is the Tzar.

Kasparov himself is nothing in Russian politic. Their political support is about zero, an absolute zero.

Doesn't mean that they shouldn't try.

Weird logic again. So, Russia needs a weak man to become a prosperous as the west?

Yes. Weak man and strong institutions. Strong courts.

Prove it. Compare Ukraine and Russia macroeconomic parameters.

I will, when I find a reliable source.

Aren't she is a bit old for you?

Probably, but she's still hot.

[Serb]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Don't worry, I'm careful about what I believe in.

Just proceed with caution.

By the way, what is it with you Russians and crazy alternative theories? The theory of abiogenic oil is also from Russia, and I could probably find another one or two

What do you mean what? All Russians are crazy.

There is no school for politics. Anybody can and should comment it.

Yeah, right. We have a saying about that: everyone knows all about rising children, playing football and do politics.

That's why sh!t happens, I guess.

The anti-tzar. Putin is the Tzar.

Putin is the democratically elected president of Russia who has support (according to polls) of absolute majority of Russian population. The rest is bullsh!t. If you or your insane asslickers like Kasparov don't like him, it's not our problem, but yours.

Doesn't mean that they shouldn't try.

Since they have a support of 2% of Russian population or so, let them try for all they care. Loosers.

Yes. Weak man and strong institutions. Strong courts.

And what do you think Putin is doing? You have now idea what Russian institutions and courts were under Yeltsin. Putin is doing his best to clean up this mess.

I will, when I find a reliable source.

Ok. Then we will talk, I hope.

Probably, but she's still hot.

Hm.. nevermind. No comments.

[Pekka]

What, you mean there's corruption in former soviet satellites? NO WAY! How did that happen.. I wonder who taught them that.

Too bad Putin was unable to kill him, because Ukraine would be so much better with less corrupt person, oops, I mean less corrupt according TO YOU.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Serb

It's Russian Federation to your knowledge. And things here are WAY, WAY better.

I heard in US of A they throw chess champions in jail on a regular basis (Bobby Fisher anyone?).
Fortunately Russian democracy didn't fall so low.

You're delusional.

[chequita guevara]

Well, they haven't jailed Fisher yet, cuz he won't come back home, since he's wanted for playing a game of Chess in Yugoslavia.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yeah, where are all the supporters of Western imperialism now?

Not interested in watching Serb post his usual, taking the normal disagreements in a democratic govt as somehow proof that the orange revolution was wrong.


I supported the Orange Rev cause they seemed to be the rightful winners of the election, and to be defying a massive attempt to defraud their victory, one orchestrated from their larger neighbor. I NEVER claimed to know who would become corrupt at any given time. And I dont think theres any point in Americans, Finns, Russians, and Croats debating who in Ukraine is or isnt corrupt - its up to Ukrainians to decide, democratically.