Let the Good Times Roll: 1 Million More Americans in Poverty in 2004

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Pekka
No those weren't your particular arguments but I used Bronx as an example and you took that and went with it so I had to defend against that one.

You are at least 50% to blame on this or more. I am less guilty here. If you admit this, we can go on and think of it as miscommunication. If you deny this, then you are 100% guilty now and forever.

Nah, and plus I just tripped and fell on my own length so there.

[Pekka]

So, I trip all the time PLUS others trip too (to mine)!

Mrs TUbes, not sure. I know what you mean and I agree with that. But not ALL poor are poor because they didn't have the chance to make their lives better. Sure, after they burned all bridges and went their own way, became poor in the process and now they don't have any chances, hey .. that's the way it goes, but what I'm saying is, not everyone is poor because they never had the chance, or because, or even because they were so unfortunate at some point. MANY are like you describe, not all..

[Pekka]

What I'm saying is, I bet most people who are in jail don't want to be there. I bet they want good things like any other person but they are there because they ****ed up. Period. Some are more innocent than others, but the premise is the ****ed up.

Some poor people screwed up too. Intentionally. Lost their money by some way, that was stupid. Not all idiots wants to be idiots, but they are. Nothing will change it and furthermore there's NO ONE to blame for it except themselves.

I make difference here. Most people are poor for other reasons and didn't have much chances.

[Ted Striker]

On the other hand, sometimes the system is unbalanced and unfair towards certain behaviors.

For example, what the hell are certain drug users doing in jail? Why not throw in people that drink alcohol as a drug because they are doing the exact same thing? That's an example of the system discriminating against a select group.

Putting nonviolent drug users in jail is often a waste and it clears the room for violent offenders to go free because there isn't space for them.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Pekka i understand what your saying but i dont belive saras was arguing that same point. From what i gathered from him he was saying go to this euthopia country and then whine to me. I basicly am saying i dont care if ur in bum **** egypt if u have no choices and no food or shelter you are poor you shouldnt be raised on a higher level then the folks in the us cause of the country you live in. They are suffering the same way

[Ted Striker]

word



The argument that the poor in this country aren't really suffering because there MIGHT BE worse conditions elsewhere is silly.

[Pekka]

Ted, I'd agree with that. Emphasis on non-violent ones.

Mrs Tubes, yeah well I would agree with that as well.

[Pekka]

Ted, RIGHT when we talk about poor. When we talk about 15k income, well that's not poor in most places, even when in there it is.

I think that was the whole point.

[Patroklos]

Comparing poor to poor is a waste of time. I dont care where they are located in the world, they are still poor and living in sub human conditions.

This is not the point of Ted's OP, comparing poor to poor. It is the use of the poverty line to include more people as "poor" when the actual means of most people has not changes at all. It is a moving line that does not take the conditions of the actual people into account. Relatively, we define the poor as those who make a certain percentage of everyone else averaged. It doesn't matter what the actual circumstances of the people below that line are.

That is a poor way of defining the poor, and is counter productive to actually helping those who need it.

[Ted Striker]

In your opinion.

[Patroklos]

The argument that the poor in this country aren't really suffering because there MIGHT BE worse conditions elsewhere is silly.

No, what he was saying that a good portion of the poor are only considered that because of the retarded way we calculate it. As such, while our government might all you poor because of an arbitrary number they picked, many are not poor by any stretch of the definition.

Many are.

There is no definition of poor in any dictionary that has a percentage.

[Pekka]

for real, up in da bronx the ****s outta hand fo shizzle!

I won't give up on you unless you admit your guiltyness.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

The goverment you folks have put in place by voting decided the poverty line. Saying 14000 is generous for a family of three. Have you tried to raise a family of three on 14000 a year its ****ing impossible. 14000 is just for rent for a year. you havent bought food yet nor have you bought gas to get back and forth to ur job oh and wait you havent given the kids clothes yet. The idea that 14000 is plenty to live on for 3 folks is insane. The whole idea is that poor folks are poor folks they suffer in the same manner. Regardless if they are in the bronx or in euthopia. Before i get attacked I can say i tried to to support 3 kids on 15000 a year when i was in school i tell you what it wasnt fun . I visisted many catholic charities for food and am not ashamed to admit that. My babies were fed and we survived. But i had an exit plan most folks dont

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras
I won't turn this thread into a pissing contest of "who has more miserable regions in their country". US would lose anyway.

Maybe, maybe not. There are Indian reservations here that would qualify for 3rd world status if they were independent. Pine Ridge Reservation, for example, is one of the poorest places in the world. The great irony of this is, these were the only Indians ever to defeat the United States in a war. Eventually we took most of their land anyway.

[chequita guevara]

The Federal poverty line is a ****ing joke. I can't imagine trying to raise three people on an income of $14K. Hell, I couldn't afford to live on $14K.

Ideally, people should only spend a certain amount of their income on rent, food, etc. Yeah, but rent and food aren't charnged to you by precentage, but in real terms. If you live, say, in NYC, I would challenge you to find an apartment in a safe neighborhood for $14k a year. The poor spend a much greater percentage of their income on food, etc.

Do poor people have things like tvs, etc. Yes, usually hand me downs from friends or relatives or they "fell of the back of a truck." Some people were better off before, then lost their jobs. I don't see why some people think the poor should sell off everything and live in absolute misery before being worthy of the term poor.