Arguing with Stupid Leftists

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by C0ckney
that's cool che

it just seems from what you post that your party spends most of its time arguing amounst themselves, rather than working together towards your aims.

Parts of it do, yes. The whole point of this particular tendency is to dispense with the arguing and get on with the demonstrating or organizing solidarity support for coffeeshop employees.

We all have our own little projects. I'm trying to build a local in my neck of Florida, for example. 1,100 people voted Socialist in this county in the last Presidential election. Obviously there's base here.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Az
Limits on the possibilities of human beings aren't the consequence of materialism. In fact, I see the historical inevitability in marx writings completely impossibile in such a case.

Well, historical inevitablity shouldn't be taken to mean a natural, unavoidable process, which will simply happen if we don't take action. His statement was premised on the belief that no human beings would put up with what the proletariat had to put up with in the 19th and early 20th Centuries in the West, and everywhere else still today. It was premised on the idea of active, not passive, human beings taking control of history.

After all, that's the whole point, we take control of history, rather than history controling us. We take control of the economy, rather than the economy controling us. Etc. We become the subjects instead of being the objects.

There's nothing inherent in that ideology which says that human beings, therefore, are unlimited in their potential. Now, it might be wiser to take a scientific view, and simply say, we do not and cannot know yet whether humans are potentially unlimited, since we have not explored all of the existing and potential possibilities.

But I think that's somewhat like agnositism, a refusal to take a stand. I think that the nature of reality necessarily means that there are limits to what we can ever do. We are rooted in a physical reality. Our will is a products of that physical reality. Human beings will never fly on Earth without the aid of machines (and probably not anywhere else because a planet with low enough gravity for humans to fly wouldn't have enough air to provide lift).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I'm not sure if this thread topic is ironic or not? On the one hand is the obvious humour of the situation. On the other hand Che is one of the few lefties on this site that I'm willing to discuss anything political with (since he's never shown himself to be of the usual naive mouthbreathing ilk).

There's a thread for this.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138314

[Spiffor]

About the OP: that's exactly how I feel every so often. I too have people in my neck of the woods who say that everything is bad except a strict observance of their particular agenda. Demonization of other organizations, demonization of all the people who are in these organizations, you name it...

But the worst thing is these people's complete self-absorbedness. If they ran things in the party, we'd never get votes from anybody but of some members. No ordinary citizen would bother with hearing such rants.

[Ninot]

I met a really hot socialist chick in my Euro history class yesterday. She had her head on straight.

Too bad your friends dont Che.

So basically, what im trying to say/ask is, How do I ask a socialist chick out?

[Theben]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I'd gladly trade Imran for che. Lose a lawyer and gain a Husker/Runza supporter? It's a no-brainer...

I don't remember runzas... but GO BIG RED all the way baby!!

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Ninot
I met a really hot socialist chick in my Euro history class yesterday. She had her head on straight.

Too bad your friends dont Che.

So basically, what im trying to say/ask is, How do I ask a socialist chick out?

errr...how about...i dunno...just asking her?!

[Ninot]

Originally posted by C0ckney


errr...how about...i dunno...just asking her?!

that is sound advice.

but shes moving to Israel at the end of the year, so I'm not touchin that.

Damn Socialism

[chequita guevara]

Ask her to liberate your proletariat.

[Spiffor]

[GePap]

Tell her you are going to go see some small band of poor actors do some godawful play, and ask her to come with you to support the working class...

Or do what Che said..

Honestly, I don;t mind Marxists, since at least they, if they are true Marxists, try to have a scientific or logical basis to thier arguements. I really can't stand liberterians, anarchists, or the hippie dippie types. Arguements based mostly on emotion and claims of absolutes which they can't possibly back up with anything logical....

That said, I don't buy the whole "economic man" bit, so I can never be a Marxists, thought I can buy the Hegelian Thesis, antithesis, synthesis bit.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by GePap
Honestly, I don;t mind Marxists, since at least they, if they are true Marxists, try to have a scientific or logical basis to thier arguements. I really can't stand liberterians, anarchists, or the hippie dippie types. Arguements based mostly on emotion and claims of absolutes which they can't possibly back up with anything logical....

Try some Marxist Libertarians then.

http://www.spiked-online.com/

[chequita guevara]

Are they the remnents of Living Marxism, the Marxist-turned-libertarian group that got sued by that Brit news network?

[Cort Haus]

Yes, that is them.

[chequita guevara]

I always kinda liked them. I thought they raised good points and arguments that got ignored by the Marxist left, even if I didn't necessarily agree with all of their conclusions.