Someone Tell the President the War is Over

[Dis]

Originally posted by techumseh


I think the US should open negotiations with the Resistance, conclude an immediate cease-fire, and conclude an agreement for a scheduled withdrawal of all American (and Coalition) armed forces over a 3 to 6 month period.

And yes, in anticipation of your objection, they will be leaving behind an Unholy Mess. Except that continuing the occupation for one, two or even three years will NOT change that. It will only delay the inevitable, at a cost of hundreds more American and thousands of Iraqi dead.

open negotiations with the resistance. If they were stupid enough to fall for that trick, we should bomb the meeting place.

[lord of the mark]

gulf news:

"Al Qaida lieutenant gunned down in Mosul

Agencies

Baghdad: A top Al Qaida member who master minded several suicide bomb operations in Iraq was gunned down in Mosul on Friday.
Mohammed Salah Sultan who also known as Abu Zubair was wearing a suicide pack when he was shot dead in an ambush on Friday by Iraqi security forces.

A US military statement said Abu Zubair was a lieutenant to Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the leader of Al Qaida in Iraq. He was being hunted for his role in a July suicide bombing of a police station in Mosul in which five Iraqi police were killed.

"He was also suspected of resourcing and facilitating suicide bomber attacks against coalition, Iraqi security forces and Iraqi citizens throughout the country," the statement said.'

[Dis]

unusual to hear good news from the media. must be a conspiracy of some sort.

Score one for the Iraq security forces.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Their basic policy would be the same. Keep training Iraqi forces, and only execute a limited drawdown in 2006 if Iraqi forces are ready. and encourage the political process in Iraq, including negotiations with sunni arabs to weaken support for the insurgency. Which is right, as that is the correct path to win in Iraq.

I dont think the public, if they understood the strategy, and had it explained by someone they trusted, would oppose that. The problem is that the admin is bearing the baggage for past things - WMDs were not found, even though allied intel services and the US govt under Clinton thought they were there - this becomes "Bush Lied". They underemphasized broader strategic reasons for the war, so they were not taken as seriously as they should have been when they were emphasized later. They went in with too few troops, and didnt plan properly for the occupation. The CPA was largely run by political loyalists, rather than by professionals, which delayed reconstruction, and led to political gaffes in the critical first year. And when things went seriously bad in April of 2004, they didnt come clean on how bad it was, or really explain what they were doing about it. When they changed the regime on Iraq completely in 2004 - shifting control from DoD (bremer) to NSC (Negroponte) and later pushing Feith and Wolfowitz out, they pretended there was no change. They screwed up Abu Graib, and while they got rid of Feith, they kept Rumsfeld.


A Biden or Clinton has none of that baggage. And would be more articulate and maybe more honest about the war. And would, I presume, be less reluctant to fire the incompetent, than over loyal Bush.

So putting the Democrats in charge would eliminate political baggage and clear the decks for a more vigorous pursuit of the SAME policies? That's exactly what I thought!

[lord of the mark]

Foxnews, on Mosul:

"There's one clear sign that life in the Sunni Arab-dominated (search) western half of this city is changing for the better — children are again playing soccer at night. The reason: fewer terrorist attacks.
The U.S. military says there were fewer bombings and mortar attacks in July than any month since October.

A 50-percent drop in attacks in western Mosul (search) over the past eight months is a marked improvement from the days when U.S. troops routinely had to call in airstrikes and repel synchronized attacks.

But that doesn't mean violence has been eradicated. Though attacks in July were noticeably down, western Mosul still endured over 50 shootings and roadside bombings, the U.S military said.

Soldiers say they're close to solidifying gains and making further progress — if the flow of foreign fighters can be blocked so that terrorist ranks are not quickly replaced. U.S. commanders say they've nearly uprooted the top terrorist network that steered the city toward chaos last November."

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Dis
unusual to hear good news from the media. must be a conspiracy of some sort.

Score one for the Iraq security forces.

OMG, the Tide Has Turned!

[lord of the mark]

Relative quiet said returning to restive Diyala

By Adeeb Abunawar
Azzaman, August 6, 2005


Iraqi forces have managed to impose relative quiet on many cities in the restive province of Diyala, Governor Raad Rasheed said.

The curfew on the provincial capital of Baaquba, site of frequent roadside and car bomb attacks, will now start from 11 p.m. instead of 9 p.m., he said.

“We strive to scrap all the measures and decisions that restrict the freedom of residents,” he said in an interview.


The governor did not say what other measures he intends to take to bring life to normal in his violence-stricken province.


But he said reducing the curfew in the provincial center and removing it altogether in a few other areas “is an indication of an improvement in the security situation.”


For example in the town of Bahraz, which for long was almost completely under revel control, the curfew has been reduced from 12 midnight to 4 a.m.

The residents have vowed to protect their own town and have asked security forces only to help them during the 4-hour curfew.

Rasheed said he was determined to reinstate security and compensate all the people of his province who suffered as a result of military operations.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by techumseh


OMG, the Tide Has Turned!

It is of course too early to say that. The insurgency has the ability to strike hard at Iraqi civilians, especially using suicide bombers, and the rate of attacks on civilians in Baghdad is still high, as it has been since April. The rate of attacks on infrastructure has declined markedly, and there are fewer attacks on coalition forces - there have been high casaulties among Marines due to their aggressive deployment in Anbar province. There have been numerous attacks on Iraqi forces, but the numbers of Iraqi forces continue to grow.

I wouldnt call it the turn of the tide. But certainly not the time to give up in despair.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

BAGHDAD — Al Qaida has deployed bombs laced with toxins in an attempt to increase the lethality of attacks in Iraq, coalition military sources said.

On Aug. 9, the U.S.-led coalition found a suspected chemicals factory in Mosul with 1,500 gallons of chemicals.

A statement by the Multi-National Force said the facility was used to develop the bombs mixed with toxins. The statement said Sunni insurgents succeeded in employing roadside bombs that contained toxic chemicals.

The MNF said coalition forces learned of the facility from suspected insurgents, Middle East Newsline reported. The statement said the investigation would continue.
Meanwhile, U.S. military sources said Iraq has killed a senior aide of Al Qaida network leader Abu Mussib Al Zarqawi.

The sources said Mohammed Saleh Sultan was killed in an ambush in Mosul on Aug. 12. The military said on Monday that Sultan, known as Abu Zubeir, was a leading operative in Al Qaida in Iraq.

Sultan was said to have held several senior positions in Al Qaida and was accused of directing the bombing attack of an Iraqi police station in Mosul in July in which five policemen were killed. Officials said he was wearing a suicide belt filled with metal pellets when he was killed.

Officials said Iraqi and U.S. forces have been particularly effective against Al Zarqawi cells in northern Iraq. They said that since June 2005 at least two Mosul cell commanders were killed.

"Abu Zubeir's death, as well as recent captures of terrorists in northern Iraq, is making a difference in coalition and Iraqi security forces efforts to disrupt terrorists operating in this part of the country," Col. Bill Buckner, a coalition spokesman, said.

In a letter written to Al Zarqawi and discovered in a raid on an Al Qaida safe house on July 27, an operative complained of the declining quality of the leadership. The letter, by somebody named Abu Zayd, also reported the mistreatment of foreign fighters.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453599.045138889.html

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by techumseh


So putting the Democrats in charge would eliminate political baggage and clear the decks for a more vigorous pursuit of the SAME policies? That's exactly what I thought!

note I said spefically biden and clinton. There are other dems who think differently. Presumably Mr. Dean, for example.

[Imran Siddiqui]

the GOP may well nominate someone who will want to win in Iraq, but is quite distant from Bush, like McCain.

If you lived through 1999-2000 and think the GOP will EVER nominate McCain, you are smoking crack. Even those like Hegel will be seen as 'traitors' by the base.

And then the problem with a quicker pull out is that it will symbolicaly be paraded as america(and uk) losing the war by all the now super radicalised madmen in the middle east. It will give them hope and recruits. So we have to stay untill Iraq can look after itself.

And the US staying in Iraq gives them hope and recruits by showing the US as nothing more than an occupier. We should stay to clean up our own mess, but the American public will say screw that.

By the way, we are missing recruitment goals for the Army because those goals have been increased, due to a congressionally mandated expansion of the army. The number of brigades is already increasing, due to reorganization. The next rotation is expected to be almost entirely regular army, and very few reservists cause of this, even if there is no drawdown.

Explain why reservists are subject to stop-loss measures then?

And I'd argue that Dems like Biden and Clinton while stating they want to stay on the ground would look for an exit plan when they got into office, and it would be far earlier than a Bush plan.

[Odin]

Originally posted by techumseh


OMG, the Tide Has Turned!

Quit being obnoxious.


It doesn't matter if you were for or against this war; I was against. But now that we are there and we need to cleen up our mess. Leaving without the place being stable will let it turn into a terrorist haven.

[DinoDoc]

Let's see if this starts a more interesting discussion:

[chequita guevara]

My sig says it all.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Very interesting indeed, DD... though of course, discussion is all good and well... but I'm looking to start mudslinging, personally