Tweet
also Jordan had the advantage, that there could be TWO states, both COMPLETELY sovereign, and BOTH with viable and secure boundaries. Modification of the green line to accommodate Israeli security needs, would hardly threaten the viability of the Jordanian state. Trying accommodate BOTH Israel and Palestine on the land between the Jordan and the Sea, the task for the future, now that Arafat is gone, and Israel is out of Gaza, is going to be difficult. Not hopeless, but difficult. I still think that the prospect of Palestinian political relations with Egypt and/or Jordan should be on the table to ease this process. It certainly seems to have helped the Gaza withdrawl.
-
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber -
No state recognized jordan's illegal annexation of the West Bank.Originally posted by Edan
Errr.... Uhh...
Given that the land was captured from Jordan, wouldn't Jordan be the one to give the land back to?
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
-
Do you have any statements of the proposal, like what level of sovereignty the Palestinians would have had, borders? Rgith of return for refugees?Originally posted by Edan
Soon after the Six Day War, Israeli representatives talked with the Palestinian representatives to consider a proposal of establishing their own state. It was rejected. Likely it was rejected because it would have required recognizing and living in peace with Israel, which even if they would have been willing to accept, would have meant being ostracized by the Arab world.
Oh, of course, it could ONLY be hatred of Jews, and not those simple, basic ideas that must have killed the proposal..
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard ShawComment
-
Pakistan did, IIRC.Originally posted by GePap
No state recognized jordan's illegal annexation of the West Bank.
Of course the arab league did not - Jordans annexation was the last residue of King Abdullahs (the one who was King Husseins Grand pa, IIRC) ideology of a Greater Syria, under Hashemite rule. The Arab league advocated pan-arab nationalism instead, and these ideologies were in bitter conflict from the 30s on.
No the west deferred to the arab league, and did not recognize Jordanian rule. Nonetheless Jordan was the de facto ruler, and under international law should have been recognized."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
-
Originally posted by GePap
I am sorry, but its beyond me were you get the idea that back in 1985 there was any serious debate in Israel about the abandonment of Palestinian lands.
note - the discussion is about serious debate in Israel about abandonment of Palestinian lands - nothing about WHO they were to be abandoned to.
There WAS serious debate about land for peace in 1985."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
-
I don't think it never reached that level of detail, since there was opposition to it. It was just the proposition of the establishment of a Palestinian state. Which runs counter to your claim that Israel would never would have considered establishing a Palestinian state prior to the intifadah.Originally posted by GePap
Do you have any statements of the proposal, like what level of sovereignty the Palestinians would have had, borders? Rgith of return for refugees?
Err, the fear of being ostrasized for making peace was Israel was a fear that was mentioned by some of the Palestinian representatives as a reason they didn't support the plan.Oh, of course, it could ONLY be hatred of Jews, and not those simple, basic ideas that must have killed the proposal..
"I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie AllenComment
-
The UK too, I think.Originally posted by lord of the mark
Pakistan did, IIRC."I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie AllenComment
-
I think Jordan did. And since Jordan was the country that Israel was trying to achieve peace with in a land-for-peace policy, it makes sense to negotiate with Jordan.Originally posted by GePap
No state recognized jordan's illegal annexation of the West Bank."I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie AllenComment
-
"I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie AllenComment
-
Gepap:
Newsflash Az, the first intifadah ended by 1992.
I was referring to an alternative scenario, where the Intifadah wouldn't have occured.
The Gaza settlements doubled in that time, and there was plenty of gorwth outside of the suburbs of jerusalem, which by the way DO endganger the envisioned Palestinian state.
Yes, in the Etzion Block, and Ariel - and they do not endanger the palestinian state any more than the Palestinian state endangers Israel.
Fatah stared in Gaza, under Egyptian tutelage.
Pre-war. Afterwards it was driven hard and far from Gaza. ( hence the PLO-Lebanon connection)
Fatah candidates won mayoral eelctions in the West Bank in 1981 (or earlier). Its funny you think those wonderfully pliable Palestinians living under this wonderful Israeli military leadership (after Israel scrapped its attempt at civl leadership cause darned inconvinient parties kept getitng into power) wanted nothing but to continue to be non-citizens of anywhere.
Now I didn't say that, did I? I've said that without outside influence, Palestinians wouldn't have started the Intifada, and would have their state by the late 90s.
It's funny, I've just seen a couple of documentaries from the early 80s, of some of the earlier settlers - and there was a distinct talk about a scenario under which most of the territories would be left independent. Back in the 80s, man.
And you do?
More than you.Comment
-
-
I think this is an interesting step forward. I cannot imagine whether this will discourage or encourage Palestinian attacks inside Isreal or what the Isreali response will be if there are attacks that originate in Gaza. This does sway me that Isreal is opening the door to peace. The Palestinians better think long and hard before they carry out anymore acts of violence inside Isreal. They may wind up back at square one.Originally posted by lord of the mark
also Jordan had the advantage, that there could be TWO states, both COMPLETELY sovereign, and BOTH with viable and secure boundaries. Modification of the green line to accommodate Israeli security needs, would hardly threaten the viability of the Jordanian state. Trying accommodate BOTH Israel and Palestine on the land between the Jordan and the Sea, the task for the future, now that Arafat is gone, and Israel is out of Gaza, is going to be difficult. Not hopeless, but difficult. I still think that the prospect of Palestinian political relations with Egypt and/or Jordan should be on the table to ease this process. It certainly seems to have helped the Gaza withdrawl.What can make a nigga wanna fight a whole night club/Figure that he ought to maybe be a pimp simply 'cause he don't like love/What can make a nigga wanna achy, break all rules/In a book when it took a lot to get you hooked up to this volume/
What can make a nigga wanna loose all faith in/Anything that he can't feel through his chest wit sensationComment
-
Breaking news, nothing is certain:
There apparently was a triple attack on Eilat, Akaba and an American ship nearby. The attack on Eilat was a Katyusha that hit a car."Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.Comment
-
no state has ever seriously challenged jordan's annexation of the west bank.Originally posted by GePap
No state recognized jordan's illegal annexation of the West Bank.
nor can it be seriously called "illegal" as there was no law governing the said territories prior to that, except maybe the british mandate, which was given to britain to set up a jewish state.
the un partitions that existed at the time, were non-binding and were rejected by all arab representatives.Comment
-
rumor on israeli sites has it that Al Qaida is behind it.Originally posted by Eli
Breaking news, nothing is certain:
There apparently was a triple attack on Eilat, Akaba and an American ship nearby. The attack on Eilat was a Katyusha that hit a car.
i'd suspect (non palestinian) Islamic JihadComment
Comment