Mandatory Aug 6 Hiroshima thread

[Donegeal]

What I find interesting is the number of people today who question the judgement on the use of the bomb. The only people who can really say weather or not it saved lives is the people who were alive then, especially the Japanese. From an article I read today (from a local newspaper) it stated that a vast majority thought that it saved lives.

Additionally, it was used when there were only two (or maybe it was 3) in exsistance. If the US had not used it when they did, it very well could have been used when there were ALOT more around to be used (ie: during a conventional war with USSR), saving untold millions of more lives. (but this line of thought just leads to unsupportable speculation)

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Bereta_Eder
It belongs in a museum.

It's the name of the family's dog!

Sophia!

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Verto


It should be celebrated as the end of the war, because it was.

Then in this same vein, you shouldn't be angry at any person celebrating Sept. 11th in the Mid-East.

Don't get me wrong, I believe (strongly) that the Japanese government should fess up to their wartime atrocities. Neither do I support all these fundamentalist wackjobs spouting their rhetoric. But what I do want is for some friggin acknowledgement that hey, the A-bomb was overkill.

Did they kill more than enough civilians and military people than was necessary? Dunno.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal, I support our troops now and support the American government, and I want them to kick some major terrorist ass... but I'll be damned if I'm going to be told droping the A-bomb was the best thing to happen to humanity since sliced bread.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Frankychan


Then in this same vein, you shouldn't be angry at any person celebrating Sept. 11th in the Mid-East.

Don't get me wrong, I believe (strongly) that the Japanese government should fess up to their wartime atrocities. Neither do I support all these fundamentalist wackjobs spouting their rhetoric. But what I do want is for some friggin acknowledgement that hey, the A-bomb was overkill.

Did they kill more than enough civilians and military people than was necessary? Dunno.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal, I support our troops now and support the American government, and I want them to kick some major terrorist ass... but I'll be damned if I'm going to be told droping the A-bomb was the best thing to happen to humanity since sliced bread.

I have no problem with people celebrating 9/11. I feel the attack is completely justified (I've already had another thread on this- so don't jack this one). They have to fight with the only means they have at their disposal. I don't expect everyone to like the U.S., I do expect some to fight back.

But I don't actually celebrate the bombing of Hirshimo. How could anyone do that? I merely observe it. It's important to remember the destruction that occured there so we don't repeat the same thing. Those people did not die in vain. I'm certain their deaths prevented WW3 (conventional and/or nuclear ww3).

I observe this just as I observe the liberation of concentration camps. We must not forget these things....

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Dis


I have no problem with people celebrating 9/11. I feel the attack is completely justified (I've already had another thread on this- so don't jack this one). They have to fight with the only means they have at their disposal. I don't expect everyone to like the U.S., I do expect some to fight back.

But I don't actually celebrate the bombing of Hirshimo. How could anyone do that? I merely observe it. It's important to remember the destruction that occured there so we don't repeat the same thing. Those people did not die in vain. I'm certain their deaths prevented WW3 (conventional and/or nuclear ww3).

I observe this just as I observe the liberation of concentration camps. We must not forget these things....

See? At least you get it.

What's pissing me off is that people aren't looking at the plane and seeing how much death's it caused, only that plane=A drops bomb=B, thereby ending war=C.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Frankychan


See? At least you get it.

What's pissing me off is that people aren't looking at the plane and seeing how much death's it caused, only that plane=A drops bomb=B, thereby ending war=C.

I look at it and see the fighting it stopped.

[Hueij]

I'm not going to enter the goodthing/evil debate but just as a reminder of what we are talking about:

[Ecthy]

Yeah Hueij that was quite unfortunate for that one now wasn't it?

AND???=

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Lonestar


I look at it and see the fighting it stopped.

not the suffering it caused ? even for many years after the event ?

[Donegeal]

I have as of yet to see people partying in the streets celebrating the bombings or the Enola Gay. I do, however, see people taking time to reflect on what happened.

Good/bad/indifferent, the Enola Gay is forever a significant part of human history and should be preserved in a museum.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by dannubis


not the suffering it caused ? even for many years after the event ?

Speaking as a Guy whose Great-uncle was captured in the Phillippines in 42 and spent 3 years in a Japanese prision camp...no, no I don't.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Frankychan
Then in this same vein, you shouldn't be angry at any person celebrating Sept. 11th in the Mid-East.

Because that ended a war?

Seems like it started one...

And don't get me wrong, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal,

Yes you are.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Frankychan


Then in this same vein, you shouldn't be angry at any person celebrating Sept. 11th in the Mid-East.

Don't get me wrong, I believe (strongly) that the Japanese government should fess up to their wartime atrocities. Neither do I support all these fundamentalist wackjobs spouting their rhetoric. But what I do want is for some friggin acknowledgement that hey, the A-bomb was overkill.

Did they kill more than enough civilians and military people than was necessary? Dunno.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not some bleeding heart liberal, I support our troops now and support the American government, and I want them to kick some major terrorist ass... but I'll be damned if I'm going to be told droping the A-bomb was the best thing to happen to humanity since sliced bread.

I don't think you have been told by anyone here that dropping the A-Bomb was the best hing to happen to humanity since sliced bread. However, I will tell you and everyone else it was the best thing that happened to the Allies who had been fighting a global war against enemies who would not have hesitated to use that same weapon if they'd had the technology. In war, the lives of your own soldiers and citizens take priority over those of your enemy. The Axis had started the war, and refused to surrender when faced with an inevitable (and costly for both sides) defeat. We applied what we did to Germany -bombing the hell out of everything still standing not only because the Nazis were trying to move factory equipment into civilian housing, but also because the only way to win unconditionally was to completely destroy any hope for victory still held by the German people. We took this concept to the Pacific front, but instead of using a lot of bombs, we used a couple big ones. The radiation and other side effects were unknown at the time, so it is unfair to bring that into the argument, but even if we knew then what we know now, I would argue in favor of dropping the bombs, exactly as we did before - not over an already leveled city that used to be of military significance, but over whatever cities were still standing and intact, as it was the only way to show the Japanese government that their plans to fight to the death of every man,woman and child on th Home Islands would not succeed.

[chequita guevara]

The U.S. hoped that using the bombs would end the war before the Soviets were due to DOW on Japan. They didn't. Japanese records show that it was the Soviet DOW and the IJA's collapse in Manchuria, that finally convinced Japan that holding out was futile, especially when coupled with the American bombs.

As a pracitcal matter, the bombs may have hastened the war's end. The American reasons for using the bomb, however, were not as pristine and pure as our nationalists pretend. It was Cold War politics, not the lives of American and Japanese soldiers and civilians that concerned them.

[Verto]

Yes, I'm sure there was absolutely no concern for saving American lives in Truman's mind.