Does Poll Show Islam Not Religion of Peace?

[Imran Siddiqui]

They're parts of that society, in the sense that they talk and interact, and hold relatioships, sure, but I don't think they're LOYAL to their societies.

And I'm sure wave after wave of conservatives (even moderates) would tell you that they don't think that Communists and Socialists are loyal to the society they live in.

I don't consider that to be a failing.

[Sava]

sure islam is not a religion of peace...

but let's talk about x-ianity

morons are against stem cell research that could save millions of lives because of the ignorant belief that a microscopic piece of crap has a soul...

therefore, opponents of stem cell research are murderers because people are dying as a result of their ridiculous beliefs.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Ramo


That's certainly false, since only 10% of British Muslims don't considerd themselves at all loyal to Britain. 10% is significantly smaller than 31%.

You've mixed things a bit. One question was about society, the other was about state. Also, they could lie. Also,

sure islam is not a religion of peace...

but let's talk about x-ianity

morons are against stem cell research that could save millions of lives because of the ignorant belief that a microscopic piece of crap has a soul...

therefore, opponents of stem cell research are murderers because people are dying as a result of their ridiculous beliefs.

If You accept that this "piece of crap" is human, You're accepting mass murder if You allow stem research.
I'm sure Hitler would describe black people, Jews or Slavs as "piece of crap" and deny their humanity as well.
Of course, his view is harder to defend, but any boarderline between human - that is a specie You're identifying yourself with - is a matter of discussion.
He identified with people of one race only, You're identifying with people above certain number of cells.
Word "backword" is only indication of your personal attitude, and can not be an arguement in this discussion.
If You accept that
Also, if You don't see a difference between blowing someone up and defending a life of someone - or something - despite the fact that his or its death may be benefitial for the society, You're suprising me.

[Sava]

Godwin!

please though Herresen, in your infinite wisdom, explain to us all how something with no brain cells has a soul...

[Heresson]

You don't need a brain to have a soul

[Heresson]

And You can find evidence for my hypothesis in this very forum.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by molly bloom

It is utterly pointless trying to portray either side as being only or mainly secular or nationalist or unionist rather than being religiously inspired, especially if one is attempting to say that Islamic terrorism is only religiously inspired.

In Northern Ireland the religious divide fuels the conflict- and geopolitics in the Muslim world fuels Islamic terrorism.

As for trying to stay in the U.K.- yes of course Unionists are. The same United Kingdom which still has an Act of Parliament disbarring any member of the Royal family from inheriting the throne if he or she marries a Catholic or converts to Catholicism.

These things die a long lingering death.

Molly - It depends which islamic terrorism youre talking about. If you mean Hamas, Id say you have a point - Hamas lives on a mix of religion and nationalism, just as the unionist groups in NI do (I still am of the impression that radical Republicans in NI are pretty secularist) Im not sure its EXACTLY the same - my impression is that Hamas is rather more focused on religion than are the Unionists, but i know too little about the unionists to say so, and in any case thats a difference in degree, not in kind.

I think you are wrong in looking at AQ this way. AQs ideology is decidedly religious - its hostile to the existence of individual muslim "nation states". Their take on certain local conflicts is from a strictly Islamic POV - in their statements the "zionists" are occupying MUSLIM land, NOT Palestinian land. Does anyone IRA man ever complain about Brit occupation of CATHOLIC land?

As for the UK being a protestant state cause of the limit on the king, now youre just being silly. The king has no real power in the Brit system today anyway. IIUC Blairs wife is RC, and Michael Howard, who ran for PM, is Jewish. And of course Britain is a largely secular society. Whereever in the muslim world there are states that are even half as secular as the UK is, AQ wants to overthrow the regime, or even destroy the state, not cling to it and fly its flag.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo


Yes, let's deport everyone who thinks Western society is decadent and immoral; there goes 3/4 of the Republican Party (and a good fraction of the conservative Dems).

youre right. It would be stupid to deport every muslim who says western society is decadent and immoral (the 30%) (though Im not sure id miss Jerry Falwell, myself) So how about the 10% who say theyre not at all loyal? Or even just the 1% who say that the decadent and immoral society should be opposed by violence?

[lord of the mark]

and yes, if anyone wants to also deport Christian, atheists, and jews, who believe that decadent western society should be fought with violence, im prepared to support that. Hell, I'll be happy to do what i can to identify Kahanists for deportation.

[Heresson]

Again, I believe immigrants, when allowed into the state, should ungergo a big test checking if they fit the nation they chose to live in.
That will not solve the problem, because next generation may have another opinion in many matters.

[Ramo]

youre right. It would be stupid to deport every muslim who says western society is decadent and immoral (the 30%) (though Im not sure id miss Jerry Falwell, myself) So how about the 10% who say theyre not at all loyal? Or even just the 1% who say that the decadent and immoral society should be opposed by violence?

What you're missing is that the truly great thing about the free society we have is that you can think what you want, without being imprisoned or deported for those thoughts. That's what I most want to preserve, and that (as well as Janis Joplin and garlic-cheese grits) is why I'm an American.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ramo


What you're missing is that the truly great thing about the free society we have is that you can think what you want, without being imprisoned or deported for those thoughts. That's what I most want to preserve, and that (as well as Janis Joplin and garlic-cheese grits) is why I'm an American.

I think you should think anything you want in a free society, EXCEPT for the destruction of that free society. Free society isnt a suicide pact.


and of course it isnt the thoughts that are the problem, but the likelihood that in the future you will act on them, either directly, or indirectly, by failing to give your full support to your society against those who would destroy it AND its freedoms.

[Heresson]

Isn't holocaust denial, racism, sexism etc a crime in America?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson
Isn't holocaust denial, racism, sexism etc a crime in America?

No. none of the above.

IF you commit a crime, AND you are shown to be motivated by racism, sexism, etc than is a hate crime in some states, and can get you a stiffer sentence. This notion is debated by civil libertarians. But for the thought or speech alone, no.

You can only be prosecuted for speech in the cases of obscenity, libel, and commercial fraud. Or when speech becomes action - youre directing someone to do something specific. Theres been controversy about how direct that has to be.

[Heresson]

Thank You for information.