"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents" part II

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
And if you want to call the Anglos a nation of shopkeepers, go right ahead, but say it plainly, like Napoleon did.

I would have done so, if I had remembered the full expression. It was "clerks and shopkeepers", but I only reminded the first one.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Spiffor

An extremely rich literature. You might have heard of Victor Hugo, Emile Zola, Honoré de Balzac or Jules Verne. I just quoted those, because I believe they're our main exports of that time.

What did Britain export during that time, except for Edgar Poe?

Poe was American.

Sir Walter Scott, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Lewis Carroll, Jane Austen, George Elliot, Charles Dickens, Oscar Wilde, Robert Louis Stevenson etc.

[TheStinger]

Nobody reads Balzac or Zolaa, nobody normal anyway.

[binTravkin]

Nobody reads Balzac or Zolaa, nobody normal anyway.

There are different types of people you know, some read Conan Doyle some Balzac (my mother being a good example).

If you do not read it and people like you don't, it doesn't give you right to say that if you read Balzac you're not normal.

In fact, computer-attached persons are considered "anormal" by most of the other society.

[TheStinger]

I wasn't being entirley serious, all I meant was Balzac especially are not the easiest books to read in the world.

[binTravkin]

Balzac especially are not the easiest books to read in the world.

Yes but there are numerous people who find pleasure in reading such books, especially women.
My mom, and both grandmothers have read most of his (and other authors' of that time) works.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sandman
Poe was American.

Oopsie.

More seriously, Britain did have an active literature, though less active (and especially less prestigious, internationally speaking) than the French one. Just like the Brits had an existing music scene, even though it didn't begin to compete with the German one.

In the wake of the Napoleonian conquest, continental Europe was full of French culture, of French worldview. Francophilia was largely spread in most of continental Europe, and there are even still traces of it today (the Romanians remain largely francophiliac, and so were the Turks until the disagreement over the Armenian genocide).

When it comes to international culture, there is one huge difference between now and then: massive pop culture. Whereas "international" culture was a thing for the elite in the 19th century (something where French literature dominated largely, thanks to the wave of Francophilia and to the fact that French was the lingua franca of the elites), it is now something for the masses.

And this change of paradigm didn't come from the UK, nor did it come from France, Germany, Italy or whatever. It came from the US. The wave of English-speakingness actually occured thanks to a variety of factors:
- geopolitical absolute domination over the west: whereas Britain had actual rivals during the 19th century, the US was the undisputed hegemon of the west (BTW you'll notice that English wasn't used as the lingua franca in the soviet bloc).
- pop culture. In the US, culture was first and foremost in the hands of businessmen trying to sell it to the largest audience, rather than in the hands of artiss paid by rich sponsors. It led to a marketing mentality in the culture scene, and the Yanks were the ones who weren't shy of trying to reach the biggest audience.
- Progressive replacement of French as the language of the elites, because of a complete American domination of the economic, mass-cultural, "elite-cultural" and diplomatic scenes.

The UK did nothing similar either in nature or scope. You had a few wonders of pop culture (the Beatles for example), but the radical change came from the US, not from you.

[TheStinger]

The US was not the gigantic hegemon you describe until after WW2

[Spiffor]

Yes, and it is after WW2 that French was actually losing ground as the elite language.

[Alexander's Horse]

[KrazyHorse]

indeed

[Sandman]

I don't think much of your historical overview, Spiffor. It reeks of nationalism.

[Spiffor]

So please tell me where I'm wrong.

[Az]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
actually Napoleon has been rather airbrushed, mainly by the French

He was a monster just the same.

Only if you count Hitler's expansionism as his main crime. Napoleon brought and sought reform in almost each and every country it conquered.

[Sandman]

Spiffor:

You are wrong to claim that French literature was 'more active' and 'especially more prestigious' than British literature. I provided a list of British authors from the C19th who are regarded as extremely influential, but you simply ignored it. Why?