The Only American General to Lose a War Dead at 91

[Patroklos]

I wish I shared your optimism.

I don't find that all too optimistic

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

how was the military's credibility hurt: the us won against a strong NVA

As far as credibility goes, what counts is perceptions, not kill ratios. Most people came away with the perception the US lost.

Because the US military was weak? Are you seriously suggesting that most people believe that if only the US military had been stronger south vietnam would never have become communist?

What is it about the vietnam war that would possibly have diminished the credibility of the US military?

US foreign policy was the real credibility loser in vietnam not the us military.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Because the US military was weak? Are you seriously suggesting that most people believe that if only the US military had been stronger south vietnam would never have become communist?

I said most people think the US lost the war.

What is it about the vietnam war that would possibly have diminished the credibility of the US military?

The perception that the us was defeated. Duh!

I shan't begin to guess how many times I've heard the Vietnam war mentioned as proof that "the People" can stand up to the evil Yanks and win.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MikeH
I can't believe my confederacy troll got no response.

Thats actually a serious comparison. Historian C Vann Woodward wrote an essay about how the south had a more tragic history, including adjusting to losing a war, and how Viet Nam was making the North more like the South in that respect.

I think it was in "The burden of Southern History"

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Saras


And achieved almost none of the objectives.

Two out of three aren't bad. We didn't succeed in the conquest of Canada, but we got everything else.

[chequita guevara]

Vietnam isn't the first war the U.S. lost, and we didn't lose the Civil War. The US government won that one. The first war the U.S. lost was against the Souix nation in 1867, although they subsequently lost the peace.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by sprucemoose3311
lets break this down: 11 years... thats 2 years too many... unless you count covert operations during french/indochina war... then thats not enough years. the first us troops killed was in 1956.....

That sure was an impressive display of military specification quoting. That more than makes up for the fact that the most powerful military in the world went into a completely insignificant (except for whatever symbolic value you choose to assign) ex-colony and decimated it to the point where it was marginally more completely insignificant at a high cost and ultimate outcome of simply delaying the very thing they were trying to prevent.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Patroklos
58K killed and 130K wounded over the 11 years given is actually not bad at all when you considered how many servicemen fought/scale of the operation. But if us acheiving our pimary objective (as often as it was changed) and suffering those casualties costitutes a defeat, how does suffering 2-3 million casualties and your country being a smoldering ruin but having gotten South Vietnam consitute a victoy?

Unless victory simply means controling the territiry, in which case alot of people here a hipocrits concerning some other conflicts.

Victory generally means achieving your objectives. Unless you're so desperate to deny defeat that you'd actually trot out an objective of pulling your troops out to be the measure of success.

[chequita guevara]

The strategic aim of the Vietnam War was to stop the spread of Communism. Although the U.S. failed to stop the spread into the whole of Indochina, it was contained there, and didn't spread to the rest of SouthEast Asia. In strategic terms, it was a victory.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The strategic aim of the Vietnam War was to stop the spread of Communism. Although the U.S. failed to stop the spread into the whole of Indochina, it was contained there, and didn't spread to the rest of SouthEast Asia. In strategic terms, it was a victory.

Only if we assume that communism would have spread further than vietnam if the US had done nothing. I'm not convinced that it would have done so.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Ted Striker, Battlefield 2 Commander

"ARTILLERY YOUR AREA!!!!!!!!"

Yer still a Private, ain't ya?

Keep an eye out for PO3Lonestar. Ironically, as the only sailor that would be with the USMC IRL is the medic, I'm often...the medic.

Lonestar!


"For God's sake I need a pickup!"

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Only if we assume that communism would have spread further than vietnam if the US had done nothing. I'm not convinced that it would have done so.

Exactly. And what's more, I'm not seeing any evidence that it would have. Vietnam was already active outside its borders after being fully taken over by the communists. Laos and Cambodia succummed. Burma was (and still is) an autocratic ****hole that at the time was under the control of a self-avowed (although admittedly in-name-only) socialist. Where's the evidence of any form of containment - that the various communist factions, who didn't seem to like each other much anyway, had somehow "learned their lesson" from the Vietnam war?

[chequita guevara]

It's not that they learned their lesson. There were armed movements against the government in Burma and Thailand. The problem is that the U.S. was quite correct about the Domino Theory, successful revolutions spawn new ones. The American War, as the Vietnamese call it, sapped their revolutionary energy and deflected the international revolutionary impulse that typically follows successful revolutions.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Yer still a Private, ain't ya?

Keep an eye out for PO3Lonestar. Ironically, as the only sailor that would be with the USMC IRL is the medic, I'm often...the medic.

Lonestar!


"For God's sake I need a pickup!"

I'm a Lance Corporal now

I'll look for you

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


I'm a Lance Corporal now

I'll look for you

I assume yer handle is "Ted_Striker!"