Radical new policy idea for dealing with suicide bombers

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by mrmitchell

Suicide bombing is a symptom of the problem. The problem is the state that the middle east is in. We must attack the causes of the problem to fix it.

You are right, but the ME state, even cured by the good Dr Bush, will not solve the problem. Leeds, Marocco, Pakistan, etc, are also to be cured.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Dr. Stranglove - look at my thread of just letting the Iraqis have a Civil War. The Sunnis very stupidly started Death Squad activity, and even with Sistani telling the Shia no reprisals - there is some quite bloody ***-for-tat retaliatory killings going on. The bombings are just fanning the Shia hatred. Since the Shia have twice the numbers - and what passes for a government - the outcome is not at all in doubt. Maybe if we get lucky that will start another Shia/Sunni war accross the Middle East - maybe Molly can give us how many there have been - and they will be so busy in slaughter as to mostly leave the West alone. It will be just a little bit rough on the innocent civilian populations, though. Sort of like the third biggest war in casualty numbers of the 20th century, Iran-Iraq. People forget that.

Yes I think they're headed for a civil war. One way out of Iraq would be to just re-arm the Shia and Kurdish militias and let them pacify central Iraq as they see fit.

[Zoid]

I think "the carrot and the stick" approach is the best way to solve the problem. Undermine the terrorists base of support by withdrawing from Iraq. Give the palestinians their own land. Support democratic governments in both countries and see to that the people get a decent standard of living.

Everyone who still is not satisfied after that you beat with the stick.

[Pekka]

We are basically looking at the same question if guerilla war can be stopped. No it can't be. That's the whole point of the guerilla tactics, and that's why it is effective in its own way and intimidating to anyone no matter size and strength. The longer the conflict goes, the worse it gets. Experience and long lasting situations is something that feeds them, not the other one.

They just have that small but burning light on everyones ass for as long as it takes, to the bitter end. They can't really effectively do big damages on short periods of time, but they can lower the morals of their enemy, and just wear them out to a point when it gets ugly, and then it's one on one.

Also, playing the game of hearts and minds is extremely difficult when facing local guerillas. They can play the carrot and stick way more effectively. To underestimate this ability and the fact that it can't be stopped is a road to failure for sure.

It's necessary evil. It has to be taken, but not accepted. THey have to be fought, searched and destroyed, but most likely they are the hunters. But it's what happens in most conflicts. It's not like this is something new. Except this time it's terrorists mixed with some other groups of fighting forces, a weird combo. Mostly terrorists though. I feel they might be a little more easy target than traditioanl guerillas. I feel they have weakness that guerillas don't have, and that is the strong ****ed up fundie inside them that blocks some of the blood going on to the brain, making them not protect themselves enough and stay hidden and quiet and be smart.

[Zoid]

But every guerilla will eventually fail if they don´t have support from ordinary people. Hamas et al has massive support in the occupied territories. If you take away that support they will crumble and die. The lack of support has crushed many armed resistance groups, RAF, IRA, Sundero Luminoso...

[Pekka]

Yes. But that's not an easy task. By the way it is going now, it's never going to happen. But.. who knows, maybe things will turn around, a good day will come, some luck, and things change. But yes... also, I'm talking about organized guerillas, not some half assed criminals or some forrest guys who have some weird weapons and that stuff.. I'm talking about very organized, trained troops, and I mean troops, not the ones in Iraq. Even though they can't be underestimated either, since they are able to do damage as we know. I wouldn't exactly put IRA and the company to that list of very good troops.

So yeah.. take the support out.. But let's not mix guerillas, organized and trained guerillas (in here guerillas are SF, not some old bad teeth dudes) and terrorists and criminals. But who ever the entity is, local ones dictate the minds of the locals way more easier, be it stick if not carrot.

[Zoid]

Granted that RAF wasn´t a proper guerilla movement, and IRA is somewhere in between. But the premise still stands. Any form of armed resistance against the goverment requires support from ordinary people to be successful.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I....agree....with...Winston.

[Pekka]

Right, but if the public is non caring, guerillas live. If they don't actively go against guerillas, they live. That is.. difficult to achieve. Locals are most likely more afraid of the guerillas than anyoen else, if they want to be in that position that is.

[Lancer]

The Germans in WW2 had an officer whacked in...Yugoslavia? Anyway, they went and exterminated the town where it happened, killed em all, the murdering scum. That said, they never had any more trouble in that town.

Life sucks.

[Pekka]

Right right.. but these fundies are not exactly afraid to die, so only people who would be getting the beating would be people in between.. me thinks this would not work in this case.

[Eli]

The Israeli policy of destroying the homes of the bombers actually worked. Not 100% of course, but terrorist attacks declined significantly after the gloves were removed during March/April of 2002.
There were even a number of instances in which the families of the would be bombers turned them in to Israeli forces, fearing reprisal.

Source:

http://www1.idf.il/dover/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=22&docid=37572.EN

[Eli]

Originally posted by Lancer
The Germans in WW2 had an officer whacked in...Yugoslavia? Anyway, they went and exterminated the town where it happened, killed em all, the murdering scum. That said, they never had any more trouble in that town.

Mmm, maybe because there wasnt any town anymore?

[Lancer]

Bulldoze the whole damned town then, and increase the effectiveness. Start an add campaign...'It takes a village to prevent a bombing'.

Go Israel.

[Lancer]

Eli, that's my point. Brutality works, but then we're the same as the Germans. However, the Israeli answer of bulldozing the houses and leaving the people scratching their asses and wondering what happened, much better. A humane approach to a messy problem.