Guns, Germs, and Steel PBS miniseries discussion thread.

[Epublius Rex]

Menzies is a crackpot- the maps he uses are fakes and were even pointed out as such on the PBS show about him-

http://www.kenspy.com/Menzies/

http://baheyeldin.com/pseudoscience/gavin-menzies-1421-china-discovers-the-world.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/gavin-menzies

Chinese Junks may have been huge, but they were not sea worthy in a way that European or even Phoenician ships of 1500 years previous were. Ever wonder why Europeans didn't build gigantic men of war that size (400 ft.)? Because the wooden keel and beams could not stand the stress of the high seas, that's why. The Chinese could not conceive of a better design, so they stayed home. It is preposterous to claim they just decided to not colonize other areas- they tried in Japan and Korea, but they were beaten back and gave up. They were never anything but slow and cumbersome. They were not built to handle rough seas and most assuredly could not have rounded the Cape in one piece. Think of them as a slow moving barge on a quiet lake and you get the idea of what they were built for- coastal and harbor duty, the calm seas of Asia.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Theben
But he amuses me.

Like a ranging fire buring down an orphenage full of invalid children would amuse an arsonist?

[Epublius Rex]

Gepap won't argue with me because he cannot.

Africa is closer to South America then Europe is, which is where Columbus landed (Caribbean) and it was the voyage of Columbus that sparked European colonization, not Leif Ericcson.

Now, explain that one away.

[Epublius Rex]

Originally posted by GePap


Like a ranging fire buring down an orphenage full of invalid children would amuse an arsonist?

You need to learn how to spell.

orphanage
not
orphenage

you do that a lot. Are you sure you read his book properly?

[Drake Tungsten]

I like this DL...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Epublius Rex
Gepap won't argue with me because he cannot.

Africa is closer to South America then Europe is, which is where Columbus landed (Caribbean) and it was the voyage of Columbus that sparked European colonization, not Leif Ericcson.

Now, explain that one away.

Simple.

Africa did not develop any seafearing cultures.

Leif voyage was from poor and isolated Iceland, a place with no ability to back continuing voyages in order to mae them profitable and of interest to anyone else.

That was easy.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


I like this DL...

Yes, plase Drake, associate yourself with him.

People like you two belong together.

Peas in a pod and so forth.

[Drake Tungsten]

Actually, I suspected he was your DL until he bagged on your spelling. Same grasp of facts and all...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Actually, I suspected he was your DL until he bagged on your spelling. Same grasp of facts and all...

Sorry Drake, but I could never immitate you so well.

[Drake Tungsten]

Sorry Drake, but I could never immitate you so well.

Only one "m" in "imitate", buddy...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Sorry Drake, but I could never immitate you so well.

Only one "m" in "imitate", buddy...

See, you and Epublius Rex share so much in common. Its like you two were klan brothers or something...

[Epublius Rex]

I think the single most important event in the West was the Magna Carta. It established property rights which in turn allowed for capital formation in the hands of the average person. These rights still do not exist in the rest of the world and, if the Supreme Court of the Soviet in the US has it's way, will no longer exist here.

Private property was/is the cornerstone of Western ideals of freedom, but it is also the most important aspect of capitalism. Without, capitalism cannot exist and without it, we would be no better off then anyone else. Failure to see this and appreciate it is monumental. It was no accident of geography. The modern idea of freedom and rights were an outgrowth of religion.

At the same time ideas concerning religion and personal determination exploded in Europe, so too did their inventions. Not to mention the ability conquer those who would not be conquered.

But the European Renaissance was not the first in Europe, rather it was the third. The first being the Greeks, the second the Romans. No other peoples ever experienced anything like it. Do you honestly think it was all due to cold weather keeping bugs at bay? I don't see any ice in Greece or Rome, for that matter. The problem with his book is it negates history as a continuum. He sees the rise of Europe in 1500 as an isolated event, rather then as a part of it's history- the so called "dark ages" were anything but. What they really were was a temporary set back.

BTW, it was not silver from the new world that flooded Europe, it was Gold. The English, Germans, Dutch and French all have silver mines. What they did not have was gold. The Chinese would not trade for silver. and when the English ran out of gold or it became to expensive, they simply "took" China and forced them to trade. Now, any great nation that could produce 500 foot long Junks should have been able to fend off tiny England, wouldn't you think?

[Epublius Rex]

Originally posted by GePap


Simple.

Africa did not develop any seafearing cultures.

Leif voyage was from poor and isolated Iceland, a place with no ability to back continuing voyages in order to mae them profitable and of interest to anyone else.

That was easy.

In your limited capacity to think, methinks. The question wasn't asking you to state the obvious, genius, the question was to explain why they did not develop a seafaring culture. Could it have been a lack of ability?

YES

[Epublius Rex]

Originally posted by GePap


See, you and Epublius Rex share so much in common. Its like you two were klan brothers or something...

GePap has admitted defeat. In true style of the undereducated, over leftified, he is now commenced to call names- and it is the dreaded inference of being, OMG a RACIST

Oh oh no, please don't do that. Don't let us see you reveal your limited education.

[Epublius Rex]

Originally posted by GePap


Like a ranging fire buring down an orphenage full of invalid children would amuse an arsonist?

Don't you mean something more like this:

Like a raging fire burning down an orphanage full of invalid children..............