Explosion heard in London

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Yes, they probably would have.
-
I initially suspected anarchists, anti-globalists, etc. But the facts seem to be pointing to militant islamists.

Come on... anarchists and anti-globalists are relatively harmless, they'd never do something like this, nor do they have the means to organize that.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I dont think IRA has ever used suicide bombers, have they? Not that suicide bombers have been confirmed, but that would seem the most likely way to get a bomb on a bus, trains, etc. If you leave it in a bag or something, someone is likely to get suspicious - youd think folks in London are on alert for suspicious packages. And multiple bombings is an AQ trademark.

Yes i think that is most likely, no-one checks bags ever. which is weird since 911 i always thought . Or maybe stuck on the train itself, like underneath etc. Seeing how easy its been for undercover reporters to get jobs with the repair contracters on the underground(they were whistle blowing bad work practises etc) - that could have been a way in to plant a device? suicide bombing is the surest method though i stopped using the tube 6months ago because i felt it was a ripe target for a terrorist attack.

[Ninot]

I can't imagine how any type of security would stop this kind of attack without cripeling a city's transportation system.

[Skanky Burns]

My sympathy.

I hope all our polytubbies are ok as well.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ninot
I can't imagine how any type of security would stop this kind of attack without cripeling a city's transportation system.

You can't.

These systems are meant for the free transportation of millions daily. You simply can't accurately defend them, specially against suicide attacks.

That said, I have heard very little about these being suicide attacks. On the web CNN is saying this are more like the Madrid attacks, which were not suicide.

As for who did it: come on, this is quintessential AQ style multiple attacks.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ninot
I can't imagine how any type of security would stop this kind of attack without cripeling a city's transportation system.

Y'all are correct that you cant do airport type security.

The Israelis have gotten pretty good at having bus drivers and ordinary passengers look for telltale signs of a suicide bomber, and have stopped some, but many blow up and kill anyway.

Best ways are 1. break up cells in country 2. Stop terrs from coming in, (if they came from abroad) 3. Stop global terrorist financing, communicating, and planning. 4. Kill and Capture the global network 5. Drain the swamp.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ninot
I can't imagine how any type of security would stop this kind of attack without cripeling a city's transportation system.

Exactly. Given the numbers of people using the integrated rail/tube/bus network its simply not feasible.

Unless of course we're all given bar codes or computer chips.

Still, the I.R.A. didn't manage to stop London running in decades of campaigns. It took a power failure in old equipment to do that one winter's night in the 1990s.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


You can't.

These systems are meant for the free transportation of millions daily. You simply can't accurately defend them, specially against suicide attacks.

That said, I have heard very little about these being suicide attacks. On the web CNN is saying this are more like the Madrid attacks, which were not suicide.

As for who did it: come on, this is quintessential AQ style multiple attacks.

madrid somebody left the bombs in baggage, no? THAT it should be quite possible to stop. Assume all unattended items are bombs.

[Ninot]

Oh I believe you GePap.

I can eaasily think of a place to drop a bag in the Montreal system with a 30 second fuse, and be at street level when the thing blows.

And there aren't any cameras or anything, so I wouldn't think if anyone tried it they'd be easily caught.

I'm just kinda glad Montreal's not a huge target, cuz i'm gonna be depending on that Metro alot.

[Adam Smith]

Sympathies to London and its people.

Some limited security measures are possible.
Washington's Metro has air sniffers in the big downtown stations.

edit:
There are also signs in most every station urging passengers to inquire politely about any unattended packages.

[GePap]

Well, you can try to hide the bags, stuff them under seats to make them hard to notice. In the bustle of a morning ruch hour people are not bound to notice. Even worse, people have an perverse reason NOT to report anything- you report something, and the train might have to be stopped, people gotten off, the police has to come- you slow everything down, and if its likely not anything (because honestly, 95% of the time a bag left there would be justa mistake), so why bother?

Of course, the bombs could have been left or placed on the tracks, or to the side, but that would inidcate a huge level of planning an excecution, so I highly doubt it.

Also, train systems are far more vulnerable than buses. In a bus the driver sees everyone getting on. In a train a conductor is general has no clue, and no way to stop a fare-paying customer from getting on, since people pay entereing the station.

[Harovan]

My sympathy goes to the citizens of London.

Now go and get these criminals!

Originally posted by lord of the mark
madrid somebody left the bombs in baggage, no? THAT it should be quite possible to stop. Assume all unattended items are bombs.

Except that it's hard to tell in a train or bus, overfilled during rush hours, if an item is unattended or not.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by molly bloom

edit:

Unless of course we're all given bar codes or computer chips.

edit:

wait out on this one i would guess

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
My sympathy goes to the citizens of London.

Now go and get these criminals!



Except that it's hard to tell in a train or bus, overfilled during rush hours, if an item is unattended or not.

if this kind of attack were to become more common, youd A. expect people to carry/hold their bags - if you put it down, its unattended - tough luck and B. You put safety above being late.

IIUC thats the attitude in Israel, and people get used to it, and adjust their behavior with regard to packages, etc. Which is why they rarely ever have a terr act involving a left behind bombs, IIUC, and the terrs have focused on suicides.

[GePap]

These types of attacks will hardly become as common in the US and EU as attacks have been in Israel.

There have been two, separated by more than a year, and both were obviously very highly planned onese since we are talking about at least 4 bombs in either- a very ghih level of sophistication. That limits the number of attacks possible.

NOw, if it were lone attacks against systems, maybe, but we have yet to see such a thing.