What the heck is this crap?

[JimmyCracksCorn]

And this one:

Source: http://www.ploughshares.ca/CONTENT/W...PERS/wp031.pdf

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Can you prove anything you've said about Canadian attitudes, Jimmy?

Now, as for how this all fits into Canada being complacent ignorant about history. Well, gran'pa, this is well known and has been in the news very recently -
as recently as KH's Canada Day thread. Too many Canadians do not know their history, as a point of fact this is true.

Of a survey group, when asked 20 questions about Canadian history, these were the results:

# 83 percent of Quebecers failed.
# 61 percent of Maritimers failed
# 49 percent of people west of Ontario failed

http://www.cbc.ca/story/news/national/2000/06/12/dicksond.html

Even at its best of 49%, this is pathetic. And these only involved the benign happy moments of Canadian history. But that was 2000, lets see if its gotten significantly better in 2005:

TORONTO, July 1 2005/CNW/ - The average Canadian could correctly answer only 8 of the 20 questions (or 40%) contained in a Quiz on the country's economic history.

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnw/050701/td_canada_day_quiz.html?.v=1

Oops, I guess not.

Now lets be honest here. If Canadians at large don't know these simple answers to simple questions about the better known parts of their history, how in holy hell am I supposed to accept your claim that they are "well informed about the darker periods of their past"? If Canadians can't name the first PM, then its not very likely that they know about this country's legacy with slavery, xenophobia, forced relocations, residential schools, cultural and societal genocide as well as fatal military adventurist exploits. Its apparant and obvious that this is unacceptable and ought to be curbed. Especially with a whopping 11% of the country (as cited in the former article) stating outright that "they themselves are not interested in learning more [history]". Thats a travesty, and its appauling that you've chosen it as something to support.

So, NYE: Do you finally have anything meaningful to contribute? And meaningful data or opinions to add? It didn't take me long at all to write this up and gather the sources.

Or will you not just continue your frantic menstruations somewhere else?

[Flubber]

[SIZE=1] Originally . And these only involved the benign happy moments of Canadian history. But that was 2000, lets see if its gotten significantly better in 2005:

Now lets be honest here. If Canadians at large don't know these simple answers to simple questions about the better known parts of their history, how in holy hell am I supposed to accept your claim that they are "well informed about the darker periods of their past"?

Holy Hannah

I looked at the suvey and I think I would barely pass.

I would have no clue as to the brand name of a failed New Brunswick automaker in the 1970s-- frankly I'm shocked anyone would know and probably no one did since the 23% correct rate is slightly less than random chance on a multiple choice question.

and how many people know how old which bank is ?? Really I am so ashamed.

Oh and not knowing

the percentage of our good expiorted to the US in 1900
the form of currency used in the 17th centurey
the quebec cooperative financial institution

For shame for shame. None of these were major historical events and upon looking at the4 quiz I have no shame in not knowing those things. They are purely trivia so to sue it to prove anything is bullcrap. You might as well say that Canadians on average only answer correctly 33% of Trivial Pursuit ( canadian Edition ) Questions . .. it would be as meaningful

[Flubber]

Oh and JCC answer my question .. . What do you require to meet your test of doing "all that can be done" with respect to past wrongs ?

Specifics please-- I've heard your rant, rantings easy . " My oh my the world is so terrible I have to shout it from the rooftops" etc etc-- What specifically would canada have to do NOW so that we were not painted with the same brush as everyone else

[Flubber]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn

it is in fact an active participant in military adventurism, as evidenced by their involvement in almost every theatre of every US-involved war in the 20th and 21st centuries minus a paltry two.

Are you thinking of Iraq and Vietnam perhaps?


I don't think you should cite canada as being involved in US-involved wars as it ignores our history. We were in WW1 and WW2 far in advance of the US and have made a separate policy with respect to wars since then.

Oh and how do you define "war"? Does Granada count??

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Flubber
Oh and JCC answer my question .. . What do you require to meet your test of doing "all that can be done" with respect to past wrongs ?

Your guess is as good as mine. I see it as a problem but one that I don't necessarily know the best answer for. And again, this isn't just a Canadian problem, so the issue of increasing awareness would have to take a culturally fine tuned approach in each country and society that its attempted.

Certainly raising these issues more (at all?) on national holidays would be a great place to start, instead of poster boarding the kind of nationalistic garbage in the OP. This is especially important in societies like the US and Canada (etc) where immigrant and minority groups played bigger than normal roles in creating the modern state.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

But the purpose of this thread isn't to find a solution (necessarily), its about the simple recognition of a systemic problem.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

I don't think you should cite canada as being involved in US-involved wars as it ignores our history. We were in WW1 and WW2 far in advance of the US and have made a separate policy with respect to wars since then.

You misread me. By US-involved, it means wars that the US has been involved in... not who got there first.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


"As for murdering Hatians? Here:

http://dominionpaper.ca/canadian_news/2004/08/25/canadian_m.html

About arresting Muslims? Here:

http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php

Do you read your own links??

The haitian one talks about maybe perhaps Canadians were involved since the JT2 force was in Haiti and their operations are secret. Not even this blog is saying for sure that any Canadians were involved and its filled with maybes

The second, on arrest of Muslims recounts the arrest by the US ofa canadian citizen in New York and his deportation to Syria. How this says anything about canada arresting Muslims is beyond me. It does speak to our lack of diplomatic clout.

These were the only two links I clicked . Are they representative of the proof of the things you allege?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


You misread me. By US-involved, it means wars that the US has been involved in... not who got there first.

Howver it makes us sound as if we just go along with US missions . . . that is simply not our history. We are allies and frequently on the same side but canada has made its own policy for better or for worse

[Flubber]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
But the purpose of this thread isn't to find a solution (necessarily), its about the simple recognition of a systemic problem.

Hmm but how do you say there is a problem that "enough" has not been done if you you have no idea what "enough " is.

and note the lower standard I am applying as opposed to your " all " that can be done-- you can never do all that can be done. If you ran a million public service spots, you could always run one more.

Also what is your goal?

-- greater information and knowledge
-- reparations

and how many past wrongs are you considering here?

Do you have any specifics or are you merely a loon shooting off about how terrible society is and how badly "minorities" are/were treated.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Flubber:

Being complicit in an arrest is the same as performing the arrest itself.

These were the only two links I clicked

Please start over and try again.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn

Being complicit in an arrest is the same as performing the arrest itself.

Nothing I read in the link provided indicated any complicity. In fact the public media coverage at the time indicated that canada was pretty pissed about this treatment of its citizen. If the US told us to piss off, exactly waht could Canada do about it

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Flubber


Howver it makes us sound as if we just go along with US missions . . . that is simply not our history. We are allies and frequently on the same side but canada has made its own policy for better or for worse

Well then I apologize for your misinterpretation.

-- greater information and knowledge
-- reparations

Both, where appropriate.

Honestly, though. You're changing the subject. I never once claimed to have a plan. This is about recognizing a problem. Please stay on topic.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Flubber


Nothing I read in the link provided indicated any complicity. In fact the public media coverage at the time indicated that canada was pretty pissed about this treatment of its citizen. If the US told us to piss off, exactly waht could Canada do about it

Have you been following the ongoing inquiry even one little bit? You say "at the time" as if its over. This is still going on. You haven't heard about the role of the RCMP or CSIS? I would suggest you dig a little deeper into that story.