Rugby - Hands Off White!

[finbar]

Yes, I'm the only one who plays fair around here. Truthful, factual, without bias or irony.

[Havak]

And you nearly had me sucked in there - right up to the last word of the sentence.

[finbar]

Why waste it on Horse in the L***** thread?

[Caligastia]

Glad to hear all the people we know in London are ok. I was a bit worried about my sister who lives in Clapham, but later found out she was on a business trip in Portugal yesterday.

[LDiCesare]

Yes, I'm the only one who plays fair around here. Truthful, factual, without bias or irony.

This could be sig material.

[Havak]

Very much sig material.

Please avoid other threads Finbar - at fifty Euros a pop I would soon have to start thinking of my own phrases!

[finbar]

I actually got to listen to the match! Via the link that kiwiman posted last week. Couldn't get it working last week, this week I worked out how.

Sounded like more of the same. Even with the ABs down to 14 for a total of twenty minutes, the Lions couldn't make inroads. The Lions' backline sounded as impotent as ever. Were they simply not getting the ball? Or doing nothing with it when they got it? Sounded like Dawson made some sort of difference when he appeared.

And Rico Gear's late try sounded like a pearler. I saw him do it many times in S12. Very gifted player.

Clive is going to be canned for the headline on the BBC article suggesting that he called the tour a success. He seemed to be talking about the "Lions ethos" being a success while conceding they were beaten by, simply, a better side.

EDIT. Oh, and the Wallabies cleaned up the Boks 30-12. So much for Jake White's 900+ kg pack and his trash talk. Another best on ground by Steve Larkham. Pity, apparently, about the Boks' deliberate high hits, some apparent stomping, and Nathan Sharp uttering the words "eye gouge".

[finbar]

Backstage on the Lions tour gets sillier and sillier. The widely-published photo of Clive and Gavin Henson apparently chatting amicably together after training, purporting to show that Henson had accepted his non-selection in the Test team, was a set up, orchestrated by Alastair Campbell. The photographer involved has confirmed that he was told not to let Henson see him taking the photograph. He positioned himself behind a car and used a long lens. Read Campbell tying himself in knots trying to avoid telling the truth. Tosser.

Clive, for whatever unfortunate reason, must have agreed to Campbell's idea. I'm not sure what it does to the personal trust factor between coach and player.

I did warn you, Clive. Lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.

[Havak]

But at least it's an object lesson for the next coach - in how not to do things?

I don’t think there is any shame in losing to a better side to be honest – and all teams experience it sooner or later. The ABs are a mighty fine side right now.

As much as Clive’s timing may have sucked on Saturday though he was still right to warn the Kiwi fans that they will have bad days as well as good ones (he should know).

If the boys are honest I bet they have already dreamed of Tana lifting the Webb Ellis? But haven’t we been here before between world cups?

Yes the late interception try was a pearler. You could see it coming a mile off unless you were wearing a red shirt. In fact the Lions backs have been given a lesson in rugby all series. The forwards once again did much better – O’Connell and Moody had strong games in particular – but once it left the pack it was schoolboy stuff. Murphy got little ball but achieved more than Robinson did in two prior games. Lewsey was solid in defence but I can't pick any back who looked threatning in attack - no one ever seemed to hit the ball at any pace?

Kaplan – what an amazing guy. I would have given yellow cards to various players at various points – but not to the two he did when he did. And the fact both were ABs? Brave man!

It occurred to me watching the game that the ABs may well get better games when they play Wales and England separately. Yes even with England in their current slump. The Lions in all three tests just never looked like a team to be honest.

Fundamentally the next Lions tour has to revert to the old format of eight week tours. Ten games in five weeks was too much – and Clive did make a mistake in having such a huge squad I think. The next coach must strive to give his test unit some game time together before the big one. And we still have the problem of how much rugby we play – it’s becoming vital we address this. Some of the lads playing on Saturday were clocking up towards forty games this season – and were playing lads who had done fifteen or so. As soon as they land in the UK they will be back in pre-season (started a week ago) – it’s crazy!

As Finbar pointed out the ground share is dead in Leicester – thank goodness. We will be developing Welford Road. I’m happy – soccer grounds just are not the same.

And when the ABs are done with Carter or McAllister – send them to Leicester okay?

[Havak]

As a post script what matters the trust between Clive and Henson? One is headed to soccer and the other one might as well be - they both need to rebuild reputations from the ground up.

The tanned one was built up as the saviour of the Lions by the taffs and himself but when given his chance was nothing more than average (at best). Smith has come out the tour with more kudos - such a shame injury stopped his test appearances (he was picked for the second test before injury blew it for him).

[finbar]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Havak [/SIZE

As much as Clive’s timing may have sucked on Saturday though he was still right to warn the Kiwi fans that they will have bad days as well as good ones (he should know).

Yes, the timing sucked. He just can't bring himself to be gracious, can he? You have to wonder about an ego like that. Does he genuinely believe he did nothing wrong? Would he genuinely do everything the same way all over again? Which isn't to say that he could have reversed the results - the ABs were obviously too good. But mistakes were obviously made. When he's off fishing with his family, will the vaguest doubt enter his head? Or does he know he made mistakes and the ego won't let him concede it publicly?

It occurred to me watching the game that the ABs may well get better games when they play Wales and England separately. Yes even with England in their current slump. The Lions in all three tests just never looked like a team to be honest.

Without having seen the matches, I think you're right. A settled, balanced team has to have more chance.

Fundamentally the next Lions tour has to revert to the old format of eight week tours. Ten games in five weeks was too much – and Clive did make a mistake in having such a huge squad I think. The next coach must strive to give his test unit some game time together before the big one.

My memory of the Lions tour here is that there were two teams - midweek and Test. Not mutually exclusive, but just about. The cause of some of the angst, if I recall. Doesn't that just about have to be the way? Professionalism, et al, has meant the home teams are now so much better prepared than they were in the old days.

And we still have the problem of how much rugby we play – it’s becoming vital we address this.

Quite so.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
As a post script what matters the trust between Clive and Henson?

I was talking, of course, of the principle.

The tanned one was built up as the saviour of the Lions by the taffs and himself but when given his chance was nothing more than average (at best).

To be fair, he had one chance. Others, with far fewer qualifications, apart from Clive's admiration, had twice as many.

[finbar]

Quote of the day

"I don't think there's any gulf between the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere. Who holds the World Cup at the moment?"
- Lions coach CLIVE WOODWARD after New Zealand's 3-0 Test series whitewash over the Lions.

Sounds like some of the tosh hurled around this forum as the stinkiest of bait, Clive.

[ravagon]

Just finished reading a summary of the Lions end-tour postmortem. Not that I had time to read it or to post this mind you.
Apparently, get this, Clive has figured out what exactly went wrong and has made a public recommendation to his successor.
The problem?
Lack of players ...
3 full teams, 45 players, up to about 48 at one stage iirc, wasn't enough.

Originally posted by Havak

And when the ABs are done with Carter or McAllister – send them to Leicester okay?

Actually, if the release of the AB 3N team is anything to go by you might actually have a crack at Howlett too ...

[finbar]

Dougie's slide from glory has been gradual. He had, by his standards, an ordinary S12 season. Not helped by the Blues' erratic performances. Telling, perhaps, that his fellow Blue Joe Rokococo also suffered to the extent that he finished up in the ABs Junior (read A) team playing in Australia recently.