Rugby - Hands Off White!

[finbar]

Josh also went on to say that England were playing the most expansive rugby in the world at the time. I think he's had one too many knocks to the head.

[Havak]

In late 2002 England were playing an expansive game. They rolled both Australia and NZ doing so - how could you possibly forget that Finbar?

From 2002 to November 2003 they tightened up considerably - primarily because they had a set of forwards better than anyone else's and could choke opposition out of the game.

So now the Lions have lost to NZ in NZ's own backyard we are suddenly looking back and ignoring what a ******* good side the Jonno led England of 2002-2003 was? Sheesh.

[Havak]

I also liked the way yesterday that AndyDog made pre-emptive excuses ready for the possibility that Australia will beat the ABs in the tri-nations - I think it's a distinct possibility myself because there is no logical way it should happen (and that is just how the Aussies like it).

[ravagon]

14-6 approaching the 60min mark.
Darnit. I'd hoped the Aucks might be able to knock the Lions over but it doesn't look as though it's going to happen.

One thing you can take a bit of heart from I guess Havak is that the Lions lost by a bigger margin when they put the Welsh players in the starting 15?

[Edit: Bah humbug. Flippin Lions are all over Joe like a bad rash. Who's been telling them he could play? ]

[Edit[2]: We scored! :Joy: 14-13 at the 70min mark! ]

[Edit[3]: Darnit. Again. 17-13. Had what seemed to be a good chance right at the end but knocked it on. Sad. Oh well. Mornin' finbar. ]

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
In late 2002 England were playing an expansive game. They rolled both Australia and NZ doing so - how could you possibly forget that Finbar?

I was merely demonstrating that being an hour ahead of you allows me to get in first while you're still parking your car and dreaming of caffeine.

Now listen. I'm reading a wonderful book - "Guns, Germs and Steel - A Short History Of Everybody For The Last 13,000 Years". Basically, it's an exploration of the reasons why societies developed so differently and at such different rates around the world. Included is an exploration of the means by which various parts of the world were settled. New Zealand, as we know, was settled by the Polynesians from the north in around 1000AD. Prior to that, the Polynesians settled Samoa in around 1200BC. But where did the Polynesians come from?

The Polynesians developed out of the Austronesian expansion across the Pacific. Via Taiwan. From South China. Starting around 3500BC. So, if we're going to be strictly historically accurate, North Auckland - as the source of so much All Blacks talent - should, in fact, be known as Far South East China.

Thus, if the Rugby World Cup is ever staged as an origin-based competition, put your money on the Chinese team.

Oh, and if I discover, later in the book, that a wayward Austronesian stumbled his way to the East Midlands, that means you're an All Blacks supporter.

All of which only proves that a little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
14-6 approaching the 60min mark.
Darnit. I'd hoped the Aucks might be able to knock the Lions over but it doesn't look as though it's going to happen.

One thing you can take a bit of heart from I guess Havak is that the Lions lost by a bigger margin when they put the Welsh players in the starting 15?

[Edit: Bah humbug. Flippin Lions are all over Joe like a bad rash. Who's been telling them he could play? ]

[Edit[2]: We scored! :Joy: 14-13 at the 70min mark! ]

The Lions squeak home 17-13. Still, a win is a win, I suppose.

[Havak]

And eloquently proves it at that!

I will no doubt return to supporting the ABs at some stage - but I'll need some time off as I think the gloating about a 3-0 'Blackwash' will put me off for a while. I'm perfectly capable of admiring how they play even as some Kiwi fans might be annoying me with their rampant optimism (not the lads on this board of course).

I'll support them against Wales I suspect. And Scotland probably. But I'm in the irish and English camps for November.

As an aside do you know the origin of the expression "forlorn hope"?

So todays game. 14 NPC Championships. 8 All Blacks. And 1 poor set of forwards.

The Lions were not good - particularly in the second half. Bad tackling and continuous turnovers. Auckland could and should have beaten them and I suspect the Auckland lads will regret not doing so for the rest of their natural.

And now for Saturdays thumping just to round off my perfect rugby season (Tigers burgled by Wasps, England down to 6th and falling, Lions walloped by NZ. Can it get worse?).

[Frozzy]

*cough* Eight Week Ban *cough*

[Havak]

The Lions player you mean - for maliciously and wilfully placing his head under the players boot?

It actually looks evil as there is almost no pretence at backward motion with the foot.

[child of Thor]

I wasn't aware of the huge losing record the Lions have against New Zealand. So i guess we should not be that surprised when it continues.

Think about it, Scotsmen, Irishmen, Welshmen and Englishmen trying to work together? thats just crazy thinking

[finbar]

From the BBC website:

The Lions produced some of the most enterprising rugby of their tour on Tuesday. Aware of the danger of the Auckland backline, particularly Rokocoko, they set out first to strangle its supply of possession and then to deny it room.

The Lions achieved the first aim by killing ball at breakdowns, closing the gaps in lineouts or disrupting scrums, and the second by fringing offside, moving up so flat in midfield that tacklers often arrived before the ball.

All of those activities took place with the tolerance of New Zealand referee Steve Walsh, who allowed the Lions to join rucks from the side, their forwards to interpose themselves in Auckland's lineout and their midfield to stand behind the last feet of the opposition scrum.

Narry a complaint about SH refs this time.

[Havak]

Very few sides win series in NZ coT. Some win Tests there. Of all nations guess who has the best record there? It's them darned Aussies again. Thankfully the ABs are a little more assailable away from home.

I think what you are really saying Finbar is that the Lions have actually learned something on this tour from the masterful and Professional way the All Blacks play? Sounds like the Lions have got the professional side off pat - just need the masterful bit now?

Now for this:

Lions prop Graham Rowntree has been cited for allegedly striking Auckland lock Bryce Williams in the 17-13 victory at Eden Park on Saturday.

The incident happened in the first minute of the game.

The Leicester forward will appear in front of a independent judiciary hearing at 0100 BST on Wednesday.

Meanwhile Auckland centre Sam Tuitupou has also been cited for "allegedly stamping or trampling" on Gordon D'Arcy in the 52nd minute of the game.

Tuitupou was also involved in a scuffle with Lions lock Ben Kay, which left the Leicester forward nursing a black eye.

However, the match officials ruled at the time that Kay had thrown the first punch.

Rowntree and Tuitupou were cited by cited by the International Rugby Board's independent commissioner Dennis Wheelahan of Australia.

The hearing will take place at Eden Park and will be headed by the IRB's judicial officer Terry Willis.

Retaliation is no defence when it comes to carding - but it is a defence in the citing process. Not that it will help him - head stamping should get a sizeable ban anyway.

As for Wiggy (Rowntree) it is very out of character - I am sure he was provoked.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Very few sides win series in NZ coT. Some win Tests there. Of all nations guess who has the best record there? It's them darned Aussies again.

(The tiresome place has to be good for something! )

I think what you are really saying Finbar is that the Lions have actually learned something on this tour from the masterful and Professional way the All Blacks play? Sounds like the Lions have got the professional side off pat - just need the masterful bit now?

You've turned your one-hour-earlier differential to your advantage! You can post outrageous rebuttals and scurry off home while I'm already planning dinner!

BTW, my Airport Extreme hardware arrived today. From the Netherlands of all places. Mrs finbar and I are now completely and totally wireless!

Retaliation is no defence when it comes to carding - but it is a defence in the citing process.

Is it? I didn't know that.

As for Wiggy (Rowntree) it is very out of character - I am sure he was provoked.

As ugly as he is, he doesn't need to belt anyone. Looking at them would damage them enough.

EDIT. Apparently Cueto played well again today. You'd have to think he'd've been a chance on the wing in the final Test. At least he's big enough and can build up speed given a start. Last week's pair were a disaster, apparently.

[ravagon]

Hmm. A humble Clive?

http://www.planet-rugby.com/Tournaments/British_Irish_Lions/story_44642.shtml

Didn't know he had it in him to be honest.

... even as some Kiwi fans might be annoying me with their rampant optimism (not the lads on this board of course).

Well, perish the thought...


As for the Auckland game though, I'm more inclined to think the Aucks lost it towards the end. They had the momentum coming from behind with that converted try and the Lions on the back foot but then they just kept turning the ball over at the wrong time. About 3 knock-ons in the last 15 iirc.

I don't think the Lions will be able to take the 3rd test somehow. I always thought the second would be the one in which the ABs were the most vulnerable but they proved me quite wrong last weekend and I don't really see them dropping off the pace too much for the last game.
I'd hazard a guess that the Brits will still be able to kick it up another notch, even without the prospect of a series win in their sights, but I don't think it'll be enough.

[finbar]

Originally posted by ravagon
Hmm. A humble Clive?

http://www.planet-rugby.com/Tournaments/British_Irish_Lions/story_44642.shtml

Didn't know he had it in him to be honest.

To be fair to him - - he has acknowledged the ABs to be a very fine team. He has also, elsewhere, acknowledged that the SH teams have all moved on from the World Cup and the NH teams probably have some catching up to do. Which is fair enough, and true. What he can't, and won't, acknowledge is that his own role in the whole exercise was anything less than perfect. But that's his problem, and something a s***** club will now have to try to deal with.