'30 Days'

[mrmitchell]

ex-military straight-arrow Christian from Nebraska

When was Drake in the army?

[Donegeal]

Universial Healthcare:
Why: I like our quality. Best quality medical care on the planet (but we do pay out the ass for it).

Malpractice caps:
Why: I'm still trying to think of a reason why this would be a bad thing. Anybody got an answer to this?

Insurance:
Why: Biggest horse**** rip off industry in the US. Unfortunately, it is a nessecary evil for somethings...

[Drake Tungsten]

When was Drake in the army?

When was I a straight-arrow? Or a Christian?

I don't see how SS has anything to do with this...

Of course the single biggest program in our budget has nothing to do with whether adding further budgetary burdens is a good idea or not.

I was talking more about Medicare when referring to the "ridiculous mess" anyway.

[Bosh]

Publically supported care doesn't have to be that expensive. South Korean taxes are very low (10% sales tax, very very low income taxes, some corporate taxes and excise taxes on some high end/imported goods) but the government supports things enough that for $20/month insurance I paid $3 for a doctor visit and $70 for a pretty fun bit of surgery with pointy things stuck up my sinuses (and $3 a visit for a bunch of check-ups after it). Drugs are dirt cheap too.

Of course the medical care is a bit, um, rushed on occasion (no rules about how long doctors have to spend with each patient and very little malpractice litigation) so as soon as the doctor knows what's up you get a perscriptions and they send in the next person. They go through patients fast enough that you almost never have to wait for anything.

Its far from perfect, and if I had any kind of major surgery I'd be very leery of using anything but the university hospitals but overall I really really think that the US needs a system that provides Korea-level medical care to everyone for free (the way things operate here it probably costs less than we're already paying for Medicare and Medicaid) and then if people want more than that they (or their employers) can pay for that.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Just look at Europe for an example of what we should be trying to avoid.

High standards of living?

[Drake Tungsten]

America has a higher standard of living, less unemployment and better economic growth.

edit: My favorite recent quote...

"The French social model isn't a model, because no one wants to emulate it. It's not social, because its caused record unemployment." - Patrick Devedjian

[Ramo]

Of course the single biggest program in our budget has nothing to do with whether adding further budgetary burdens is a good idea or not.

Seeing as how SS is pulling a surplus, and will continue to do so for a few decades, no.

I was talking more about Medicare when referring to the "ridiculous mess" anyway.

Medicare is considerably more efficient than private health insurance.

[Ramo]

In terms of administrative costs, we spend $752 per capita more than Canada each year according to a recent study. So a single payer system would save around a couple hundred billion dollars in terms of administrative costs, which is far more than needed to insure everyone currently uninsured.

The gap between US and Canadian spending on healthcare administration has grown to $752 per capita, according to the New England Journal of Medicine, reporting August 21 on the findings of researchers at Harvard Medical School and the Canadian Institute for Health Information.

"A decade ago, the administrative costs of healthcare in the United States greatly exceeded those in Canada. We investigated whether the ascendancy of computerization, managed care, and the adoption of more businesslike approaches to healthcare have decreased administrative costs," NEJM editors wrote. "A large sum might be saved in the United States if administrative costs could be trimmed by implementing a Canadian-style healthcare system," journal editors concluded.

Healthcare bureaucracy cost Americans $294.3 billion in 1999. The $1,059 per capita spent on healthcare administration was more than three times the $307 per capita in paperwork costs under Canada's national health insurance system. Cutting US health bureaucracy costs to the Canadian level would have saved $209 billion in 1999.

http://abilitymagazine.com/news_CanadianHealthCare.html

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
America has a higher standard of living, less unemployment and better economic growth.

Not than Canada it doesn't.

[chequita guevara]

We don't have it because Southern politicians were worried it would lead to segregated hospitals. Later, Nixon, who was also a proponent of it, was crippled by Watergate. After that, the GOP was taken over by conservatives.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Donegeal

Malpractice caps:
Why: I'm still trying to think of a reason why this would be a bad thing. Anybody got an answer to this?

Why should the government set a limit on punitive damages if the doctor cuts the wrong leg off? You still need to have the other leg removed, so now you're limited to a quarter million dollars for your loss and you can never walk again. Is that anything close to a fair trade?

The problem isn't malpractice awards, it's unrestricted raising of premiums. Caps have not produced savings anywhere they've been tried . . except for the profits of the insurance companies.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Because it would be a huge financial burden on the government

WRONG!

http://www.justhealthcare.org/

[Mr. Harley]

The Wall Street Journal did an interesting article on malpractice caps, especially pain and suffering. At least in Texas, is your spouse is a stay-at-home mom and get's killed due to medical malpractice, as long as the doctor and hospital pay all the expenses you cannot show sufficient economic damage to get the vast majority of law firms to sue. The $250,000 cap means that the $100,000 expense to get the case to court - expert witnesses, depositions, discovery, etc. - eats up the profits to the point you cannot get lawyers to take the case on contigency fees. There's not enough money to recover. So mommies are now economically worthless, at least to the courts (modern weregeld). The Great, Christian state of Texas.

[Wezil]

There is no such thing as "free" healthcare.

Ramo - You might end up with a less expensive system but our model is the last one you would want to emulate. A healthcare system that leaves HUGE numbers of citizens unable to even find a family physician and allows citizens to die on wait lists that are too long is not one you want for your family.

[laurentius]

I went to a cosmetic surgery

3 euros

free student healthcare