Microsoft hates Freedom and Democracy!!!

[DinoDoc]

I'm begining to think you people get sadistic pleasure from pwning the self-pwning Agathon and Kid.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Isn't it obvious that China's ability to oppress it's people is increased because Microsoft agrees to sell the new software?

Sig material...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

People desire equality to make sure that they get happiness. So in that sense they are dependent upon each other.

People desire liberty to make sure that they get happiness. So in that sense they are dependent upon each other.

Bingo. I'm glad you are finally seeing things our way. That actually didn't take too long.

Which is why Christians are not rational, because they only consider views that are consistant with the Bible.

Nice generalization! Do you think every Christian is a fundamentalist? What about those who have liberal interpretations of the Bible?

Depends on how liberal of an interpretation.

Why do you think that people are incapable of making unbiased judgements?

How can someone seperate out all their experiences when making a judgement? It is because of those experiences that they believe in what they believe and that informs the starting premises and conclusions. You claim a 'biased' premise later on. Every premise is based on bias. It is based on your experiences and teachings. There is a reason why political parties find strength in certain areas. Shared experiences tend to result in shared biases, which result in shared biased premises.

They can say they want to make 'unbiased' judgements, but it all comes back to the experiences they've had since they were a kid, which shaped their beliefs and how they look at the world.

It's a nice saying, put yourself in someone else's shoes, but you don't have the experiences necessary to actually do it. You can try to imagine, but your biases will color the attempt.

All you have to do is realize that your own experience is irrelevent, because it's only the experience of one person. Only when you consider the experience that other people have regardless of your own experience, can you make an unbiased judgement.

I'm not biased simply because you disagree with me.

It isn't disagreement, because I think people like DinoDoc, Kuciwalker, and myself are biased as well, in our own ways.

When I look at your biased work, I come to that discussion where we were discussing why Toyota raised their prices. You immediately jumped on the 'they are doing this because they are going to make more profit' reason as a result of your anti-corporation bias. You backed away very quickly when it was pointed out how silly that was. Kuci detailed your pwnage very nicely, and how in the end, you shifted positions to agree that the actual reason Toyota did it was so they could avoid tariffs placed by the US government, but then acted like that was what you were saying all along.

It was amusing, but your biased showed with your anti-corporation rant before you even seemed to think the entire issue through.

I made no such flip-flop, but that isn't the point. I do have an anti-corporate bias. That doesn't mean that I can't overcome it. People can reckognize their bias and come to an unbiased conclusion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm begining to think you people get sadistic pleasure from pwning the self-pwning Agathon and Kid.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher

Sig material...

WTF???

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious


WTF???

"isn't it obvious...?"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So if no one from the West sold to China, the people would be much less oppressed than they are now?

I didn't say that. Obviously selling them the tools of oppression is different.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Bingo. I'm glad you are finally seeing things our way.

Apart from the fact that I said something distinctly opposite of you...

All you have to do is realize that your own experience is irrelevent, because it's only the experience of one person. Only when you consider the experience that other people have regardless of your own experience, can you make an unbiased judgement.

Yes... all you have to do . When your experiences directly lead to how you view everything in the world, you can't disregard it. Or else you lose the ability to look at anything. Your experiences are your frame of reference for making sense of things.

And you can't consider the experiences of others without your own experiences coloring it. That's why when people say step in X's shoes, two different people may have two different conclusions they arise at, even if they try to put them aside. Because their own experiences and biases have colored it.

If you try to remove you experiences (and biases) you lose your ability to make sense of the world and thus can't really make sense of someone else's experiences, now can you.

I do have an anti-corporate bias. That doesn't mean that I can't overcome it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher

"isn't it obvious...?"

No. Care to explain?

[GePap]

What the hell is DD talking about? Agathon is clearly wipping the floor with Imran and Asher when it comes to his basic point, which is pretty obvious, that he finds it immoral for Microsoft to design software that censors in order simply to make profits in China.

China's laws are a given- his arguement is purely one of corporate ethics, if such a thing exists.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Bingo. I'm glad you are finally seeing things our way.

Apart from the fact that I said something distinctly opposite of you...

You conceded the argument. Liberty only has value in so much as it increases happiness. That's why you can take liberty away and increase happiness.

All you have to do is realize that your own experience is irrelevent, because it's only the experience of one person. Only when you consider the experience that other people have regardless of your own experience, can you make an unbiased judgement.

Yes... all you have to do . When your experiences directly lead to how you view everything in the world, you can't disregard it. Or else you lose the ability to look at anything. Your experiences are your frame of reference for making sense of things.

And you can't consider the experiences of others without your own experiences coloring it. That's why when people say step in X's shoes, two different people may have two different conclusions they arise at, even if they try to put them aside. Because their own experiences and biases have colored it.

Your argument flies in the face of the scienific method. Your experience is insignificant, and completely irrelevent.

I do have an anti-corporate bias. That doesn't mean that I can't overcome it.

More than one s means you lose the argument, unless you are Ming.

[Imran Siddiqui]

See... DD and GePap's posts show my point about experiences and biases coloring people's beliefs. I'm sure both think they are being unbiased in their views.

[Asher]

Originally posted by GePap
What the hell is DD talking about? Agathon is clearly wipping the floor with Imran and Asher when it comes to his basic point, which is pretty obvious, that he finds it immoral for Microsoft to design software that censors in order simply to make profits in China.

No one seems to be arguing with him on that point.

The point is it doesn't matter if he finds it immoral.

The point is that nobody cares what a philosophy instructor thinks in the world of big business, where ideals take a back seat to the practical.

And in the real world, if Microsoft's actions do not affect China's censorship policies, it is in Microsoft's best interests to compete in that market.

Anyone who has such ideals as Aggie wouldn't last a day in the real world of business.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
See... DD and GePap's posts show my point about experiences and biases coloring people's beliefs. I'm sure both think they are being unbiased in their views.

They're both glorified public servants, I wouldn't expect them to know much of anything about how business works.

Here they are making their moral stand against Microsoft for complying with China's laws. It reminds me of when some 8 year old kid declares he's going to be a vegetarian and lashes out at everyone else for eating meat.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
See... DD and GePap's posts show my point about experiences and biases coloring people's beliefs. I'm sure both think they are being unbiased in their views.

No DD just made a bald assertion, which is common place here when another right wing nut is no longer making any sense in an argument.