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China - emerging threat, peaceful riser, or paper tiger?

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  • China - emerging threat, peaceful riser, or paper tiger?

    I should be studying for my Chinese politics exam, but I'm on Apolyton instead .... so I guess I should make a post that is topical.

    I've been worrying a bit about Australia's position in the asia-pacific region; particularly its attempt to balance growing economic ties with China and strategic & political ties with the USA. This strategy seems to be paying off, at least in the short run, but given that US-China relations have been souring somewhat lately, I am afraid that we will forced to make a hard choice in the future.

    A week or two ago a Chinese consular official in Sydney, Chen Yonglin, attempted to defect. He claims to have been given the responsibility of reporting to the PRC about the activities of falun gong, tibetan, taiwanese and chinese muslim activists in the city. He is riddled with guilt at the possibility that the information he has provided on activists have jeopardized the lives/liberties of their families back in China, and that his activities betrayed his growing sympathies for falun gong practitioners and his belief in democracy. He also claims that there is a network of at least 1000 chinese spies operating in Australia.

    Chen originally tried to defect privately by going to the department of immigration, identifying himself and telling the department that he had important information and that on no account should they notify the Chinese consulate of his actions. The Department immediately notified the consulate, and Chen (understandably) fled. He resurfaced on June 4 (the anniversary of the Tianman Square massacre) to publicly announce his allegations. The Government had blown its opportunity to deal with this situation in private.

    The Government was faced with a dilemma; how to protect this man (as they wanted to do), without insulting China. They rejected offering political asylum, forcing him instead to apply for a temporary protection visa though the normal channels. It is clear, however that they would be instructing the department behind the scenes to approve the application. If they gave him territorial asylum (a ministerial decision) they would have insulted the PRC and jeopardized the economic gains that Australia has accrued from China's "peaceful rise", but if they rejected his claim altogether and sent him back to China (to certain persecution), they would be hated by the public as cynically discarding a man's life for the sake of economic gain.

    I believe that Chen was foolish to look to Australia for help and should have immediately contacted the US Consulate. The USA is at least powerful and sympathetic enough to offer asylum to Chinese dissidents.

    This case, however, is allegorical of Australia's overall relationship with China. We abhor the Communist Government there, and its human rights violations and contempt for democracy, yet we are locked in, by our economic interests, to an intimate dance with the dragon.

    I'm not sure if it is possible to predict the attitude of a Chinese superpower to the rest of the world. China has not traditionally been aggressive towards the world at large (except in its western frontier [no more than the USA], in its conflict with Vietnam, and the limited territorial disputes with Japan)... but then it has not yet had the power to reach far beyond its own borders (excepting the case of Zheng He, in which the Ming Dynasty voluntarily withdrew from the world).

    What kind of assessments of China's power and intentions are there? Where can I find useful information on China's strategic forces and interests? And perhaps some more detailed information on its relations with the US and other emerging great powers would be helpful.
    Last edited by Dracon II; June 12, 2005, 00:29.

  • #2
    Young Dracon II is growing in skill and intellect.

    I remember the days when we used to trade raps.

    I suggest a mentor, such as Alexander's Horse, to take him under his wing.

    Oz
    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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    • #3
      China is modelling it future growth of power on another country. Looking at that country's behavior will give you some insight on China's future vision of itself.
      “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.â€
      "Capitalism ho!"

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      • #4
        Which country DaShi?
        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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        • #5
          Isn't it obvious? Which country is always brought up in discussions about China?
          “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.â€
          "Capitalism ho!"

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          • #6
            I would say either USA or Japan.
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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            • #7
              China's current leadership is aggressive expanisionist but they're tempering their desire to sieze Taiwan and a half dozen other territorial disputes until after they become top dog.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                Let's hope the situation is resolved peacefully when the time comes.

                Our two economies are now so intertwined, a war would be catastrophic for the entire world.
                We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                • #9
                  Re: China - emerging threat, peaceful riser, or paper tiger?

                  Originally posted by Dracon II

                  I'm not sure if it is possible to predict the attitude of a Chinese superpower to the rest of the world.
                  That is your most likely answer -- It's impossible to predict what China will do in 50 years.

                  We can say that China has not used its military for over 25 years and is instead focused on economic development. China spends money on its military, but so do almost all countries. Canada, for instance, bought four submarines a few years ago. Does that mean Canada is planning to attack someone, of course not.


                  But, it's impossible to prove that China does not have aggressive plans, simply because it is impossible to prove a negative.
                  Golfing since 67

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                  • #10
                    Comparing Canada to China? That's very simple logic as it ignores the vast differences between the two. However, I will agree that it is difficult to predict China plans for the rest of the world. One thing is clear, it doesn't really like it, or at least greatly prefers itself over it. Even the English propaganda channel here can barely disguise China's disgust for the west. You should here what they're saying here about the EU textile dispute even after it's been resolved.
                    “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.â€
                    "Capitalism ho!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm no offensive realist, but I think that the hegemonic stability thesis does have credibility. I don't think we're in hot water yet... but if these new powers emerging into the world system aren't sufficiently integrated into the existing framework and given their place in the sun... there'll be trouble.
                      I've been reading an article about the incredible growth of cities in the third world... in many countries the cities are growing even though the economy is shrinking. It estimated the possibility of an uninterrupted megalopolis running from Japan, Korea and Northern China down to Java. We'd be dealing with 100s of millions of proletarians and lumpenproletarians, and a major demographic and infrastructural crisis for these Governments. So perhaps they have enough of their own problems to deal with, before they can even think of turning their eyes to any of us.
                      China is a worry however, because its demographic change is largely mirroring its economic growth and investment... so cities are improving to fit the newcomers in (largely). The Shanghai delta could very well become one of the most important financial and productive urban sector in the world.... kinda like a cross between 19th Century London and Manchester.
                      The big question is; is the world big enough to handle all of this? Can we do it peacefully?

                      Young Dracon II is growing in skill and intellect.


                      Thanks Ted! I was 14 when I signed on to Apolyton, and I'm now 20... so I would hope that I have

                      I remember the days when we used to trade raps.


                      Ah yes.... they were "ill". What happened to the 1212 Problem.... he didn't seem to stick around for long. Last I remember of him was freestyle rapping at the Mod Asylum (grown a lot since then... I can tell you )

                      I suggest a mentor, such as Alexander's Horse, to take him under his wing.


                      Anyone who's willing to teach, I'm willing to listen to.

                      Oz


                      Some scottish guy was on the news today talking about Russell Crowe's "incident" and suggested that the reason he was so violent and obnoxious was that he was Australian. I got so angry that I threw my phone at the TV

                      It does worry me though that Aussies have that sort of image... and that we have tools like Crowe representing us overseas.

                      Cate Blanchett and the guy who played Wolverine are far better examples, I'd say. Friendly, down to earth, and civil people.... as most australians are when they haven't been drinking.

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                      • #12
                        My image of Australians is that they are rugged but disciplined. Friendly but not quick to start fights.

                        Instead of walk softly and carry a big stick, it's

                        Walk with a smile and carry a big stick.
                        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                        • #13
                          I hope you don't mind but I'm just making a post here so the thread will be easier to find when I have enough time to respond in a way befitting the way you asked the question. I'm swamped at work so won't have any real time to devote to the books I have on this subject.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #14
                            Which is the most likely direction for an expansionist China to take? Some options...

                            East across the straights to Tiawan. Obvious choice, but they have to build a navy first, that will take decades.

                            North into Siberia. Russia has nukes...

                            West into Iran. I think this is a possibilty. China goes for the oil.

                            Southwest into India. Can't think of a good reson to do this, but they did Tibet, soo...

                            South into Southeast Asia, but they've been there and done that and Vietnam is a tough nut to crack.
                            Long time member @ Apolyton
                            Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                            • #15
                              I just do not see China becoming terribly expansionist anytime in our lifetime. I expect disputes over Taiwan and North Korea -- indeed, ones that could explode into wars -- but I do not see Beijing attempting to coordinate a wholesale occupation of the various parts of Asia that may or may not interest them.
                              Visit The Frontier for all your geopolitical, historical, sci-fi, and fantasy forum gaming needs.

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