Gov. Perry of Texas to gay veterans: Don't come home.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
Now here is a stupid question. Of course not.

Then a comparison is inapt.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

I think it's time to beat up the South again.

You and me both.

[MrFun]

When I asked, "guess what happened?" I was referring to the abolishment of slavery -- not the Civil War.

[Kuciwalker]

Yeah, well, the abolishment of slavery wouldn't have happened within those 15 years if it hadn't been for the civil war.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


And this is all relevant to gay marriage how, exactly?

Are you in a condition of forced, non-penal servitude?

Are you excluded from the voting franchise?

Are you excluded from testifying or suing in court?

Are you excluded from being able to independently contract for the ownership of property?

Oh, you can't marry someone of the same gender. But then we all know that Gawd intended marriage to be between a man and a woman, and homos have the same rights as anyone else, they just don't deserve special rights, blah blah blah.

As long as you keep barking up the slavery tree, that ol' possum is gonna just saunter on down the road there while you're barkin' at nothin'.




Nobody's justifying slavery. Just speaking to the intent of the 13th amendment ratifiers.

And by the way, I did not claim that the discrimination that gays face today is anywhere on the par that slaves faced in the antebellum years.

Of course, a much more reasonable comparison is the prohibition of interracial marriage in United States.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Yeah, well, the abolishment of slavery wouldn't have happened within those 15 years if it hadn't been for the civil war.

so??

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
When I asked, "guess what happened?" I was referring to the abolishment of slavery -- not the Civil War.

What Kuci said.

A more apt comparison would be the Civil Rights Movement. Even that isn't fully comparable, since there is no Cold War necessity to free gay people.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by MrFun
When I asked, "guess what happened?" I was referring to the abolishment of slavery -- not the Civil War.

Pretending they're disconnected is ridiculous.

Fact is, the South wouldn't've abandoned slavery within those 15 years hadn't they been forced at gunpoint.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
so??

So where is the political base from which you hope to gain liberation?

[MrFun]

I'm not denying that the Civil War and abolishment of slavery are connected with one another.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MrFun
so??

So if your comparison is accurate, millions of people would have to die to give you the right to marry.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


So where is the political base from which you hope to gain liberation?

The premise that one should not have a different set of laws for a minority group compared to the rest of society.

The premise that just as prohibition against interracial marriage degraded the dignity of a human person, so does prohibition against gays marrying one another.

The premise that anti-gay amendments are a danger to heterosexuals and the rest of society in that anti-gay amendments violate the sepration of the church and state.


We can increase our political base of support beginning with these premises, along with other significant ones, I'm sure.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


So if your comparison is accurate, millions of people would have to die to give you the right to marry.

Nope, that wasn't my point.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


So if your comparison is accurate, millions of people would have to die to give you the right to marry.

I must admit that the prospect of a few million bible-belters killed isn't entirely unattractive.

[Kuciwalker]

The premise that one should not have a different set of laws for a minority group compared to the rest of society.

The premise that just as prohibition against interracial marriage degraded the dignity of a human person, so does prohibition against gays marrying one another.

The premise that anti-gay amendments are a danger to heterosexuals and the rest of society in that anti-gay amendments violate the sepration of the church and state.

Those are not political bases. They're a rationales. Moreover, they're rationales not accepted as true or relevent by the majority of your target population.